Landships II

Andrew Gorman · Corporal

A couple of Mk. VIII pictures

Centurion · Legend

Some of the photos are interesting, the Best 75 is different from the other two photos of this tank and confirms a theory I have (more on this anon).

The photo of the Beutepanzer knocked out in the attack on Fort Pompelle raises some questions. The accounts I have seen of this attack suggest that it was carried out by two beutes and an A7V. However I have found photos of four differen beutes, 3 female and 1 male (the one in this PDF). all labelled as being recaptured in this attack. 2 of the females can be identified as Liselle and Lottie.Both have been photographed from various angles and by several different photographers. Contemporary inscriptions on several photos id them as being at Pompelle so one can reasonably assume that this is correct. The other two tanks are on terrain that is remarkably similar - patches of bar light earth (or sand?) with scubby vegetation.
Does anyone know how many tanks actually took part in this action?

Vilkata · Brigadier

Andrew,

That was a very great find! Awesome stuff.

The picture of the Best 75 is a very welcome addition to all of our photo collections. Although, there is a wealth of other cool stuff in there too. Quite a lot of fairly obscure armored cars, artillery, etc.

---Vil.

Michel Boer · Brigadier

Did you notice the small photo on page 35, claiming to portray 3 B�ssing armoured cars? I thought there was only one built...

Michel.

dave1001 · Corporal

I came across another Mk. VIII photo that I hadn't seen before, so I figure I should share it here. I've been lurking on the forum for a while, and loving the conversations and pictures. Sorry about the size, has anyone seen this photo any bigger?

http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWI/Mk/MkVIII_2.jpg

28juni14 · Hero

Michael -

I see only a PKW in the forground with an Ehrhardt A/C to that vehicle's left. Am I missing something in th photo ?

Phil R · Captain

dave,

welcome. no need to lurk; we're all friendly. or at least toothless!

i have the same picture in my online collection. and yes, its the same size. i think it is from a russian site. but who knows where from originally?!

you're welcome to look through the collection. can't post the link because its different for me. but search for 'philthydirtyanimal photos' and you'll find the collection.

incidentally, while you are there, you might be kind enough to tell me about any errors.

phil

Mark Hansen · Legend

Phil R wrote:

you're welcome to look through the collection. can't post the link because its different for me. but search for 'philthydirtyanimal photos' and you'll find the collection.

incidentally, while you are there, you might be kind enough to tell me about any errors.

phil

Hi Phil,

Just thought I'd let you know about a few errors I found in the British heavies if that's ok.

In the Mk I album the photo in the top row on the left labelled Mk I female is the infamous Bovington Mk II with tail wheels.

In the Mk IV album the photo in row 6, on the far right labelled Mk IV hermaphrodite is a Mk V hermaphrodite.

Same album, same row, third from left labelled Mk IV is Mk II Lusitania.

Same album, row 7, third from left labelled Supply Mk IV is a Mk I supply tank WD 746. There is a Mk IV female in the near background however.

Same album, row 8, second from left labelled British tanks in Berlin are Mk V tanks.

In the Mk V album, first row, third from right labelled HMLS Excellent is a Mk IV tank.

Hope this helps.

Tim R · Hero

Hello Guys

I believe this is the photo in which Michel is referring to, unfortunately it does not show Bussing Armored Cars, it portrays a Freikorps unit in 1919 with a Beute Lancia and 4 improvised armored cars, I sadly have no idea what they are. The first three I have never seen before, the very last one, I have a few photo's of, Any idea's out there??

All the best

Tim R

sorry typo's

-- Edited by Tim R at 15:49, 2006-10-13

Vilkata · Brigadier

I'm sort of torn. The only vehicle you can acertain any information from is the one just behind the Lancia. The vehicle just behind the Lancia is the one I am referring to.

1. It appears to have engine hatch covers, much like many vehicles from WWI, so that the vehicle could operate in non-combat conditions so as to keep the engine from overheating. That would require precision cutting of what appears to be a giant solid plate of armor, on that right-side of the engine compartment.

2. Normally, armored cars with any considerable thickness of armor have far more rivets than exhibited in that vehicle.

My conclusion is that... It was either armored from very mild steel, more of a "Bullet Resistant" Car than an Armored Car.. Or.. It was a dummy car. I have seen many images of British dummy-tanks, either built to confuse the enemy, or for war parades, or what have you. Who's to say the Germans wouldnt build dummy armored cars? That vehicle looks so unaturally long and gigantic, I'd find it hard to believe it was a serious attempt at an armored car. It completely dwarfs the Lancia. Either its some sort of mildly armored lorry, or its a dummy car I think. The gun barrels seem particularly suspect.

But then again, I have very little experience in this!! I do not stand by my statements.

---Vil.

Centurion · Legend

Its probable that any improvised armoured car produced in Germany at the time would be mild steel. Even in 1918 German industy was having problems producing thin armour plate of the type needed for tanks and armoured cars (apparently one reason why the prototype LK IIs were delivered so late). Production of armour plate was one of the areas homed in on in both the 1918 armistice agreement and the later Versailles Treaty and it would be difficult to hide an armour plate foundry. Its noteworthy that the two ersatz A7V look alikes that the Freikorps had were mild steel.
The first three cars after the Lancia all look very similar and have characteristics common to many improvised armoured vehicles (not just German) especially if built in railway company workshops. For example the curved roof (and bonnet top) with the slight overhang - take a look at some of the improvised British vehicles used in Dublin. Much like the roof of a railway engine cab or a short box wagon. With regard to the rivets these are quite massive - the first improvised car is behind the Lancia (further away from the camera) and yet the image size of those rivet heads is larger than on the Lancia. Again this is not untypical of improvised armour. I suspect that these may be armoured with thickish boiler plate (on a heavy lorry chassis) rather than just plain mild steel sheet.
As for dummy - the German army did indeed produce dummy tanks both for training and deception purposes (I Ihave a few photos on file). However the Freikorps in Berlin were involved in street fighting at fairly close quarters and I have difficulty in seeing what use dummies would be in such circumstances.

Phil R · Captain

mark

thanks for your help. i will make those changes ASAP (or at least as soon as i clear my 'in-tray'!)