Landships II

theburk · Captain

FT-17's in WWII

Centurion · Legend

Take a look at the two attached photos of a Buete dump in 1940/41 and see the large number of captured French FTs amongst the collection. They wew widely used in 2nd line German manned or controled units and police, especially in anti partisan and internal security operations in occupied territories from Russia to the Balkans.

Vilkata · Brigadier

Centurion,

In your first picture... Lower left... What the blazes is the partially seen vehicle, with the cylindrical turret? I know several French designs had cylindrical turrets, but not that cylindrical. I can't place it. If I had to pick a time period for it I would say 20's or early 30's.

Any ideas?

---Vil.

Centurion · Legend

I think its a Belgian light tank

colblimp · Private

It might also be a Vickers, Polish, perhaps.

Centurion · Legend

Vickers yes, Polish no.

Vickers built a 'patrol tank' for Belgium - basicaly a Carden Loyd with a conical turret.

huhncc · Major

That is a Belgian T15.

Centurion · Legend

huhncc wrote:

That is a Belgian T15.

Yes but built by Vickers

Centurion · Legend

Just to get an idea of the extent to which the FT went on (and on) in WW2 in many theatres. Here are a few items

250 were issued to the Waffen SS security services. I believe that these were used mainly in the Ukraine and other parts of the USSR under German occupation
FTs were used for mobile coastal defence in Norway. The hull of one still remains (photo attached)
FTs equiped some German forces engaged in anti Partisan Operations in Yugoslavia (these appear in part to have been ex Yugoslavian army)
FTs were used by one unit of the Croatian army (acting very much under German control)
The airfield defence units using the FT (mentioned in the opening posting of this thread) were specially formed for service in Northern France in 1943 as it was feared that the Allied invasion might start with parachute attacks to sieze airfields
Some FTs were acquired by the Luftwaffe, again for airfield defence (although many were pressed into service as aircraft tractors).
FTs were loaded onto wagons as components in some German armoured trains.

FTs were also converted into SPGs

Certainly the little FT remained very much in service during much of WW2

Centurion · Legend

huhncc wrote:

That is a Belgian T15.

Here are the T15s just after delivery by Vickers

Kaiser · Lieutenant-Colonel

I was in Normandy some years ago, and I think I saw a FT turret mounted into the atlantic wall. I'm not sure, as it was a few years back.

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

I belive that FT-17 turrets were often used in fortifications like these.

Centurion · Legend

The Germans had a penchant for embedding obsolete or surplus tank turrets in fortifications. They even developed steel boxes to which such turrets could be fitted, the box would be buried with just the turret clear. This provided the gunner with an amunition store and even a loader to pass the ammo up to him. Although these were more usually fitted with German and captured Russian turrets I believe some had FT turrets. The FT turrets were more usually incorporated into concrete structures. A number of such positions can be found in the Channel Islands and on remnants of the Atlantic wall. They may also have been used in the Gothic Line in Italy (although reported sitings could be ex Fiat 3000 turrets). Other French turrets were also used including at least one salvaged from an FCM 2C

theburk · Captain

Centurion wrote:

The Germans had a penchant for embedding obsolete or surplus tank turrets in fortifications. They even developed steel boxes to which such turrets could be fitted, the box would be buried with just the turret clear. This provided the gunner with an amunition store and even a loader to pass the ammo up to him. Although these were more usually fitted with German and captured Russian turrets I believe some had FT turrets. The FT turrets were more usually incorporated into concrete structures. A number of such positions can be found in the Channel Islands and on remnants of the Atlantic wall. They may also have been used in the Gothic Line in Italy (although reported sitings could be ex Fiat 3000 turrets). Other French turrets were also used including at least one salvaged from an FCM 2C

yep, basicly they would provide the turret, with everything attatched including seats for the gunner and room for the loader and drop the whole unit into the fortification, this is still done by russia, in the arms catalouge from the major arms show there (i cant remember where) the turret of the BMP-3 (it was given its own designation as a seperate "complex" or independant unit of the bmp) was for sale so that it could be dropped into fortifications. i recall seeing somewhere on the internet acctual schematics of these types of fortifications, one using a pzkpfw IIIF (?) turret as an example. and i have acctualy never seen a german fortification using a russian built turret, i have seen russian ones using BT turrets, and even KV turrets, but not german built fortifications using those, i would like to see some pictures if you have them to add to my own collection. now i do know a lot of renault tank turrets from the era were used, as were some italian ones, and of course german ones, (but usualy not brand new ones, they often came from panzer IV's and III's) and to get a little back on track, anyone have pictures of turrets from the forts of WWI? i found one from a leige fort of which i have found a contemporary photo and a era photo of the exact same place, later i will post it.

nebojsa djokic · Lieutenant

Wehrmacht captured 48 ex Yugoslav FT-17's and Renault M 28. By them 20 is provided for improvised armored trains and the rest mostly for the independent armored squad. Some of them were used as individual tanks in order to provide protection significant facilities.

-- Edited by nebojsa djokic on Thursday 21st of July 2011 11:01:05 PM