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Post Info TOPIC: Austrian Panzerkampfwagen 1902 (!)


Lieutenant

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Austrian Panzerkampfwagen 1902 (!)
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Gentlemen!

I've found some interesting vehicles scratchbuilders might find challenging:

These constructions reveal the scarceness and unavailability of materiel to the
Axis-powers and the subsequent solutions to technical requirements during the end of WW1.

For the period prior to this "Ersatz-" situation the austrian "Landwehr-Train" is very
fascinating.

More details may be forwarded upon request.

Best regards,

Pody

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"Ein Volk, das keine Waffen traegt, wird Ketten tragen!" (Carl von Clausewitz)


Brigadier

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Now this vehicle is REALLY weird. A two-wheel prime mover that uses the wheels of what its towing as its own rear wheels!! That's SO weird.



---Vil.

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Legend

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The first of these is the Austro Daimler Motorprotz of 1918 designed by Ferdinand Porshe- it was classed as a Motorpferd (Mechanical horse) and was used also as an agricultural tractor post war. I don't think it actually made it into service in the military before the war ended. The second is the M17 Austro Daimler KPII known as the Daimler Pferd. This was introduced early in 1917 and did see service both as the traction unit for an 80mm field gun and also for a field kitchen. It had a 4cyl air cooled 15 bhp 4F1R engine.
The concept was tried out experimentally by some countries in WW2 mainly as a means of motorising Anti Tank guns ( I think there was a British scheme to motorise the 32 pounder AT gun with a powered limber) but I don't believe that any of these got past the prototype stage.



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aka Robert Robinson Always mistrust captions


Legend

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The land trains and tractors shown are examples of A Zug, B Zug, BE Zug and C Zug traction systems. All driven by Petro Electric engines. The land tains (A, B and BE Zug) were built by Austro Daimler and designed by Ferdinand Porsche based on an idea by General von Pragenhau. The first ones were ordered in 1909/10 and delivered in 1912. The B and BE Zug had dual road and rail capability. The engine power has been variously quoted as 100 Bhp and 150 Bhp and this drove a 250 volt generator (on the A Zug of 63 - 70 Kilowat and on the later models 93 kilowat). This powered electric motors on the wheels of every other trailer in the train. The C Zug also known as Gigant was also designed by Porshe and intended to transport the 380 mm M16 howitzer. It could be driven on road or rail and in the latter case was dual gauge (standard and Russian). It was not a train however but a convoy vehicle as the M16 had to be broken down into five loads each on a 30 ton 4 axle trailer towed by a C Zug each witha 120 or 150 Bhp engine driving a 250 volt generator giving 70 or 93 kilowat. The rear wheels of the tractor and every wheel on the trailrr were fdriven by 135 HP electric motors. C Zug photos attached - the las of thich shows the barrel of a 420mm howitzer

-- Edited by Centurion at 13:05, 2006-11-28

-- Edited by Centurion at 13:06, 2006-11-28

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aka Robert Robinson Always mistrust captions


Lieutenant

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Where went my pictures, Gentlemen?

Who the f... is taking the pic's to other forum's places?

I'm most irritated!

Can anyone help me with this business?

Tar, Gentlemen,

Pody

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"Ein Volk, das keine Waffen traegt, wird Ketten tragen!" (Carl von Clausewitz)


Legend

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Pody


Before bursting into flame  read my posting


Petr/Tim Please is there anything to be done about this stupid imaging system!



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Hero

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Gentleman


I am sorry for the problems on the forum, I am sure Peter is doing his best to figure out a solution. Until then please use patients, Nothing comes to those in a hurry. Also please refrain from using any curse words, or abbreviated curse words, when displaying your anger.


All the Best


Tim R



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Captain

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i think its quite interesting how old approaches are being repackaged as new solutions, the new hybrid vehicles are basicly throwbacks to the gas/electric systems of the past, and there were quite a few, as it was an early alternative to gasoline alone, there were even plenty of all electric cars, its amazing how such things have been swept under the rug and forgotten. and here 90 years later approached with the problem of gas prices we are returning to these ideals. even military vehicles are, the US marine corps is currently working on a gas electric scout car to be carried by the osprey, it is designed so that the electric engines are in the wheel hubs and the gas engine is located in an odd place in the car so that there is an enlarged crew compartment, but also the suspension allows for each wheel to be sprung independantly but still give each wheel drive, becase the engines are in the wheels. i wonder what ferdinand porsche would think of such a thing, an armored car folding itself up to be carried by a combination helicopter plane! i dont think he would think much of it given the innovation he saw in his lifetime.

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Lieutenant

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Hello Tim!

Please take my apologies for the use of 4-letter words. It was just the anger of
having consumed an amount of time and energy being dissolved into nothing by
a mistake in the system, I now understand from your statements.
In the future I will refrain from that.

I have enhanced the pics anew.

Best regards,

Pody

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"Ein Volk, das keine Waffen traegt, wird Ketten tragen!" (Carl von Clausewitz)


Legend

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Pody


You seem to have added an extra - the 1924 Italian Pavasi armoured car.



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aka Robert Robinson Always mistrust captions


Lieutenant

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Here some more details of the Austro-Daimler Panzerkraftwagen (AFV) of 1902:

The vehicle sported 4-wheel drive, turret with 360 traverse to use a pivoted Nordenfelt MG-forerunner. That is why the aperture in the turret is this large in Bild (pic) 381.
Engine was a 4 cyl. 4-stroke Petrol engine with 35 h.p. Max. speed was about 50 km/h.
In case of danger, driver and commander could fold down their seats to guarantee
protection against bullets. The prototype had no armour for the engine compartment,
acces-doors to left and right for driver and commander and lacked of rear suspension of the axle (what a pain for the gunner in the turret!).

The latter version of 1904 depicted in centre of Bild 382 has plated engine compartment plus rear suspension and changed the Nordenfelt-apertures into Schwarzlose-apertures, although the Schwarzlose-MG was not adopted before 1907. Interesting detail is that the petrol-tank under the commander's seat was not protected which might suggest that early commanders were active parts in petrol-barbecues

At those times, Austria and Germany used right-hand steering and left-hand traffic!
(until 1927).

Best regards,

Pody

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"Ein Volk, das keine Waffen traegt, wird Ketten tragen!" (Carl von Clausewitz)


Lieutenant

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Hello Centurion!

You're definitely right, the HighWheelers are way off topic, but I found them on the same page and thought it quit to show a dead-end lane to our spectators.
There are a lot of more funny italian "toys" in my books we could exchange outside the
forum, I you do agree (mailto: gunmaker56@arcor.de).
Nice, you've kept your eyes wide open!!!

Best regards,

Pody

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"Ein Volk, das keine Waffen traegt, wird Ketten tragen!" (Carl von Clausewitz)


Legend

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Keep them in forum - I'm sure others are interested.


I've details of at least four other Pavesi big wheelers, one with a big gun mounted low down in the hull.



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aka Robert Robinson Always mistrust captions


Lieutenant

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Hello Centurion!

Do you refer to this one......?




Best regards,

Pody

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"Ein Volk, das keine Waffen traegt, wird Ketten tragen!" (Carl von Clausewitz)
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