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Post Info TOPIC: Steamers and airplanes on Lake Tanganyika


Corporal

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Steamers and airplanes on Lake Tanganyika
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I finally found enough time to read Osprey's "Armies in East Africa 1914-18". I learned that there were vital clashes between german and belgian armed steamers on the lake tanganyika for the mastery of supply routes there and the campaign ended with the destruction of the most powerful german steamer by bombs from a belgian seaplane. I'd really like to learn more about the technical details of ships and aircraft involved in the campaign and see some of their pictures if possible.


cheers.



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Brigadier

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Janes Fighting Ships of World War One lists 3 Belgian ships serving in the Belgian Congo during WWI, but only one on lake Tankganyika. There are no pictures for any of these ships in the book.

On lake Tanganyika
NETTA (launched Dec.1915). Torpedo boat. No details known.

On lake Kivu
PAUL RENKIN , Gunboat, launched during the war. No details available.
One Motor Patrol Boat. (name unknown). Launched during the war. No details known.

I can't seem to find references to any German warships in the Belgian Congo.

---Vil.

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Legend

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Excerpt from an African travel site


During WW1 the Germans sent the 1300 ton steamship "Graf von Goetzen" in pieces by train from Dar es Salaam to Kigoma. She was assembled there, but sunk in Lake Tanganyika by the Germans themselves as defeat became apparent. She was salvaged by the British in 1924, renamed the "Liemba" and taking up service as the ferry up Lake Tanganyika. She now sails from Mpulungu to Kigoma and back once a week.


The MV Liemba



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Legend

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I think that this represents a reasonable summary of the main marine operations on the Lake. I have used 1915 place name spellings in this account.


Lake Tanganyika is effectively an inland sea bounded by a number of nations. It was (and still is) a vital means of international trade in an area with a poor land transport infrastructure. In WW1 it was initially under German control as they had three large gun boats operating on its waters and effectively barring the lake as a transport route for the Belgians who wished to invade German  held Ruanda and Urundi.. At the same time the Germans based in Uganda were able to use the lake to support their operations against the Belgian Congo and Northern Rhodesia. In 1915 two small motor gunboats of the Royal Navy (unofficially named Mimi and Tutu) were transported over land from Cape Town to the lake. This was an epic journey as there were no railways in significant parts of the route and the boats were hauled by traction engines. The expedition was under the command of Lt Commander G B Spicer-Simpson, referred to in at least one source as “one of the Navy’s less distinguished officers” (he had managed to sink his destroyer’s own jolly boat and had been absent on shore “entertaining some ladies” when a gun boat under his command at been torpedoed at anchor). Nevertheless he succeeded in getting the two gun boats to the lake where they were launched on December 26th 1915. Mimi and Tutu (armed with 3 pounders and machine guns) soon sank two of the German gun boats. At which point Spicer-Simpson took his boats off to the Northern part of the Lake to support British troops in Northern Rhodesia. This left the Graff von Gotzen still afloat. This may have been a case of ‘discretion being the greater part of valour’ for the remaining German gunboat was formidably armed with one of the Konigsberg’s 105 mm guns and various other calibre weapons. However the West side of the lake was now open to Belgian transport to support their troops in invading Ruanda  and Ulundi whilst the Germans still used the East bank to supply their defenders .


The Belgians succeeded in taking Ruanda and Urundi by manoeuvre and Kigali fell in May 1915 closing a vital port to the Graff von Gotzen. As the German position in East Africa became ever more desperate, the German commander disbanded his naval force, reincorporating the men into the army. The Graff von Gotzen was scuttled..


An interesting side light on all this is C S Forrester’s novel The African Queen later made into a classical film with Bogarde and Hepburn. In the book they are attempting to sink the Graff von Gotzen transmogrified in the film into the Louisa but in fact played by itself (the ship having been raised in 1924).



-- Edited by Centurion at 17:51, 2006-11-30

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Legend

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Further to my previous postings on this subject:


1.Spicer-Simpson was the oldest Lt Commander in the Royal Navy. He was also described as " a consumate liar" which makes historians have problems over some of his accounts. If any one makes a film of his exploits Rick Mayal (from his TV role as Allan B'stard MP) sounds like the man to play him.


2. The two British boats were 4.5 tons each and 40 ft long with a max speed of 15 knots.


3. They didn't sink two German boats - they captured one and sank the other.-


On Boxing day 1915 Mimi and Toutou (note corrected spelling) were engaged with the German ship Kingani (of 53 tons main gun 12 pounder). It took two and a half hours to overhaul her but then her main gun was quickly put out of action, fires started and her captain killed. At this point some of her crew abandoned ship. The ships engineer took command but was forced to surrender within 15 minutes.
The captured Kingani was repaired and renamed Fifi to match Mimi and Toutou. Toutou was then lost in a storm which left the British fleet comprising Mimi and Fifi (you couldn't make it up could you?).
The next German ship to go was the Hedwig von Wissmann of 150 tons and 70 feet in length. In this case the faster Mimi acted as a sort of matador whilst FiFi closed and opened up with her 12 pounder.The Hedwig von Wissmann fought to the last sinking with her German ensign still flying and atempting to return fire. 20 of her crew were rescued.
The last German vessel to go was a motor gun boat (name unkown). When confronted with Mimi and Fifi her commander ran her ashore and set fire to her.



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Legend

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And yet more (yawn do I hear? shame on you gentlemen).


1. Mimi and Toutou were officially named Cat and Dog!


2. They traveled some 2,300 Km overland to battle. When traction engine towed they did about 40 - 80 miles a day. The railhead they reached was 20Km from the lake! I enclose photos  of these vessels and their opponents.


3. The Belgians had a gun boat on the lake - the  Alexandre Delcommune. She was put out of action on 22 Aug 1914 by the German gunboat Hedwig von Wissmann. She was later repaired and up armed and became the Vengeur (after the Hedwig von Wissmann was sunk). When Spicer-Simpson headed off North (doubtless in search of a wardroom that served pink gin with ice) the Vengeur was left to protect Belgian shipping from the Graff von Gotzen. The Belgians attempted to bomb the Graff von Gotzen using a flying boat. The type remains unknown but I suspect it might have been a Curtiss F Boat. The boat selected for the attack had to land on the water and effect repairs a couple of times before making its attack. Although it was claimed that this damaged the German ship in fact no harm appears to have come to the vessel.


4. The storm that sunk the Toutou was remarkably like that described in Forester's novel that sank the African Queen.


That about it - if I discover the laundry label on Spicer-Simpson's underpants or any other details I'll let you know.



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Legend

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Re the laundry label on Spicer-Simpson's underpants  I shouldn't have made the joke as I now find that the man sailed into battle wearing a skirt as he found it much cooler. (yes I know I know but its true, any jest along the line of 'hallo sailor 'are just in bad taste).


I enclose better photos of the Kingani and of the Hedwig von Wissmann plus some better shots of the others. Also a gun raftused by the germans for shore bombardment and the Wami - a captured British steamer, armed to make up the numbers after the early losses. This vessel appears to have been the original on which the African Queen was based. . The Belgian aircraft is said to have been a Short Seaplane (not a flying boat) but the photo I've seen looks to me much more like one of the early Sopwith sea planes originally used to search for the Konisberg



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Lieutenant-Colonel

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A very unusual, yet interesting subject. Especially the part about Spicer's skirt.


Thank's for sharing this, Centurion!



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Field Marshal

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Yes, thanks Centurion. Great pics!

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/Peter Kempf


Corporal

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magnificent information magnificent addition ! thank you very much centurion !


german ships look rather like armed trawlers than purpose built gunboats, especially Hedwig von Wissmann is so. The Story of Graf von Goetzen is incredible, she still sails after more than 90 years ! Shiplovers shall keep a close eye on her; if her owners decide to sell her one day, she certainly merits to be kept as a museum ship.


Mr. Kempf, may we add the information and the pictures in this thread as a special section to the website or would they be out of subject ?



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Legend

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Kingami (later Fifi) was originally a tug (schlepper)
Hedwig von Wissmann a converted general purpose trader
Graf von Goetzen was broken down into parts (many many parts) and transported by rail across from Dar es Salaam on the Indian Ocean coast to Kigoma where she was reassembled.


I think I made an error in my ealier postings and Spicer-Simpson went South not North! 


 



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Legend

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kapudan emir effendi wrote:



 


Mr. Kempf, may we add the information and the pictures in this thread as a special section to the website or would they be out of subject ?





If Peter wishes I would be happy to put my earlier postings into a coherent article form. I'd add some info about the transport of Mimi and Toutou overland by traction engine.


I know the main part of the subject is not Landships but perhaps as part of the Fighting men section we could start to  add campaign notes (of interest as a general background and to war gamers in paticular) with a leaning toward some of the hardware involved. The Lake campaign although navalish had a significant impact on a number of land campaigns in Africa involving British, German, Belgian, South African and Portugese forces.
I've been trying to accumulate info on the use of armoured cars in the German South West Africa campaign and the fighting in South Yemen (slow going I'm afraid but when complete possibly of interest).
Some time back I did a series of postings on some of the smaller conflicts arising out of WW1 which Peter said he'd use one day -these would also fit.



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Corporal

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What about looking to the point from another angle Strategically and tactically, it is rather convenient to consider gunboats as part of the "land" forces I think. Sounds surprising eh ? Well, true, a gunboat is "technically" a ship but it is not intended to fight with naval targets but rather to engage land targets and give heavy support to firendly troops close to shore. in short, it is a semi-landship .If this "detail" shall "legalise" the situation gunboats, why not to provide a section for them ? of course the last word is to Mr. Kempf. But, personally, I think that such a section devoted to the gunboats and monitors of great war may be a great boost to the website.

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Legend

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I think if we go that route we are into Navy big way as your definition would include the British 12 inch monitors, M class submarines etc etc


 


Its really up to Peter K



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Lieutenant-Colonel

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I'm toying with the idea of scratchbuilding Toutou. Does anyone have a set of drawings on the boats? Anything useful at all would be appreciated.


A history magazine here in Sweden just had an article on this, and in the article was a very clear photo of one of the boats during a test ride in the Thems (spelling?). On this photo a machine gun is mounted at the back of the boat. Was this machine gun kept in Africa? 


I'm not too good at translating "pound" into "caliber", so could anyone tell me what calibre the boats 2-pounder guns would be (in mm)? I'm thinking 37mm, but I want to check first to be sure.


Cheers.



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Legend

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Thems is probably Thames but could be Thame, Tees or Teme depending on where they were built.


I think the gun is a 3 pounder not a 2 pounder. In photos it looks identical to the 3 pounder mounted on some US built sub chasers used in the Adriatic by the RN. If it is 2 pounder it would be 37 - 40 mm.  3 pounders were about 45 mm. There is no exact calibre to pounder conversion as the weight of the shell can depend on a number of factors.


I've seen no drawings of the Tanganika boats but they look very like the MK 1 coastal motor boats minus the torpedo slide at the stern. I have drawings of these somewhere and I'll try and dig one out.



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Lieutenant-Colonel

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I think it's the Thames. That's the river floating through London, right?


The article I mentioned says it was 2-pounders, but even the article could be wrong. I've just ordered Foden Giles' book "Mimi and Toutou's great adventure". Perhaps I can shed some light over this when I come around to reading the book.



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Lieutenant-Colonel

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Centurion, did you find the plans for those boats?


I'm about to start my scratchbuilding project of Toutou in 1/72 scale, but I still need a few pieces of information before I can start.


How long is 40 feet (in meters)?



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Colonel

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Hello,

I can only answer for the 40 feet : 1 feet is 0.3048 meter, so 40 feet represent 12.192 meter

All the best

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Eric

On going : Obice da 305/17 su affusto de Stefano, Mark 1 female ...

Finished : Dennis 3 tons lorry, Jeffery Poplavko, Renault EG, Renault FT



Legend

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See this site


http://apma.org.au/reference/ships/cmb/cmb.html



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Lieutenant-Colonel

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I've read about half of Foden Giles' excellent book now, and can therefore provide some more information about the Mimi and Toutou.


The guns where indeed 3-pdrs, Hotchiss guns. The Boats themselves where constructed by the firm of Thornycroft, and they both sported a Maxim-gun mounted to the aft of the boats. They where both 40X8 feet large.


Thank you Centurion for that link!



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Private

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Hi. I am a newbie on this site so please be gentle. Hope it is ok to bring this thread back to life.
Mimi and Toutou were built by Thornycrofts as seaplane tenders for the Greek Air Force but taken over before delivery.

'Wami' was a sistership to 'Kingani'. Both were at Dar-es-Salam in 1914 'Kingani' was broken down and sent by rail to the lake soon after war began.
'Wami' was sent to the lake after her sister was captured.  She was commisioned in March 1916 and, like her sister, was given a 37mm gun. She was scuttled 27th July 1916

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Legend

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Some years ago(99?) at Chatham dockyard I notice in the historic Dockyard a coastal motor boat I am fairly certain this is a WW1 vintage boat of the same type, it was in a poor state although the woodwork seemed fairly sound and I think was in the process of being restored the only boat I can find online at Chatham appears to be this one.....

CMB 103; post WW1 Coastal Motor Boat (MTB/Minelayer); 1921
The Historic Dockyard, Chatham (on loan from IWM.)

From this list dated 2008

http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/mhe1000/vessels.htm

On a secound look I realised that the link centurion has provided about is to the same boat which is now fully restored.....


Cheerssmile



-- Edited by Ironsides on Sunday 21st of June 2009 03:12:15 PM

-- Edited by Ironsides on Sunday 21st of June 2009 03:16:17 PM

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Hero

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Here you can find some microscopic pictures of the Belgian Aircraft
http://www.geocities.com/cdferree/tanganjikasee/tangan.html (yau have to scroll down to find them) I'm not sure of the exact type, but they appear to be Short aircraft indeed, but smaller than the more known Short 184.
Here's another wonderful set of pictures of the fighting in Africa, and about the middle of the scrilloing you can see an already outdated Otto pusher airplane, the German counterpart of the Allies
http://www.geocities.com/cdferree/tanganjikasee/tangan.html

The whole set is very interesting, I'm sorry I can't read the language of that forum!

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Captain

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Hello centurion,

Any idea of which traction engines did haul these CKD vessels ? Steam engines probably ?

I have seen pictures of the Belgian seaplanes on lake Tanganika in some photo albums preserved by the Brussels Army Museum.

regards

gemsco

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