Landships II

Bodlosh · Sergeant

Tank with strange tracks

Vilkata · Brigadier

That image is a photocopy thumbnail of a photograph in the Bovington Tank Museums archives. I originally posted it.

I do not believe anyone has made much sense of the photograph as of yet.

The tracks themselves look odd. What are those triangular structures lining the inside of the tracks? How could the vehicle move at all with a track design like that?

It's very bizarre.

---Vil.

James H · Legend

The first thing that strikes you is that the tracks look like those on the Pedrail. For some reason, the name Christie sprang to mind - often a good bet when odd-looking machines are involved. However, the nearest I can find so far is the U.S. Experimental One-man Tank of 1928. It's described as having a track which consisted of two belts of bandsaw steel joined by grousers which were also the track guides for the driving front wheel. The rear wheel was an idler and the outer edges of the alternating grousers had an overhang to keep the track on the idler. Those things do look like grousers.

The enclosed picture is from 1929, and it seems that several types of track were trialed on this machine. Only one was built, by James Cunningham, Sons & Co. for the purpose of track experimentation, so the two photos might be the same machine with 2 different types of track. The drive wheel and idler are not wildly dissimilar. The triangular things would be some sort of guide. That's the best I can do up to now. If it's not the same vehicle, I think it must be contemporary and possibly related.

Centurion · Legend

I can't see how it can be the Cunnigham as it is rear engined and the Cunningham front engined. There would seem to have been a number of little documented tanks in the US as private ventures around the 1917 -20 period (the Hamilton comes to mindfor example). Could be another of these? The strange track structures look like an attempt to do without either road wheels or return rollers. The detail is obscure but I would suspect that they are able to concertina.

James H · Legend

I think there's a chance of their being from the same stable. The steel band (not the musical kind) is there and the wheels are similar. Perhaps there were some one-offs.

According to Jones/Rarey/Icks, in the Cunningham T1 the transmission was at the front, the engine central, and the driver at the rear, straddling part of the engine. I wouldn't fancy that.

Centurion · Legend

James H wrote:

I think there's a chance of their being from the same stable. The steel band (not the musical kind) is there and the wheels are similar. Perhaps there were some one-offs.

According to Jones/Rarey/Icks, in the Cunningham T1 the transmission was at the front, the engine central, and the driver at the rear, straddling part of the engine. I wouldn't fancy that.

Actually the wheels are completely different being pressed steel plates with holes cut in the plate (the 'spokes' are an integral part of the plate) on the Cunningham whilst on the unknown the wheels are fully spoked.
The two hulls are very different also as the Cunningham� has square bulges between the wheels and the unknown does not (they'd get in the way of the funny track structures). Although the Cunningham has no return rollers it does have some sort of guides and the unknown does not. All in all whilst there's nothing to say that the unknown is not another Cunningham there's very little to suggest that it is either.

Centurion · Legend

BTW here is another tank fitted with Cunningham tracks

Centurion · Legend

Looking at the photo again and then at some excellent photos of the Fort Knox 3 ton looking at it from much the same angle - this has to be a 3 ton Ford hull with an experimental set of track units

James H · Legend

Centurion wrote:

Looking at the photo again and then at some excellent photos of the Fort Knox 3 ton looking at it from much the same angle - this has to be a 3 ton Ford hull with an experimental set of track units

A palpable hit. I've not seen the Ford from that angle before. It's obviously the answer. What site is that on?

The T-1 was built by Cunningham but apparently designed by the Ordnance Department. That suggests the dept carried out a number of trials and they must have had a try with the Ford.

Centurion · Legend

James H wrote:

Centurion wrote:

A palpable hit. I've not seen the Ford from that angle before. It's obviously the answer. What site is that on?

http://www.thetankmaster.com/ENGLISH/AFV/1918_FORD_3TON_1.asp

The T-1 was built by Cunningham but apparently designed by the Ordnance Department. That suggests the dept carried out a number of trials and they must have had a try with the Ford.

Cunningham's own company history make no mention of this effectively just quoting the little one man Cunningham and the bigger 9? ton that I posted a photo of. Given that the trials did not start until 1926/7 I'd be surprised that a 3 ton was used. Looking at the photos of the 3 ton with the odd track I'm not 100% convincd that it is a Cunningham track - looking at the bottom run where you can see the inside of the shoes that funny pantograph style structure looks as if it fits directly inro them - most odd