Landships II

MarkV · Lieutenant-Colonel

Russian WWI Tank Under Restoration

Centurion · Legend

Since it still has the original British red and white stripes on the front of the horns it would be interesting to know if the rest of the paint scheme is also original

eddie · Corporal

Centurion wrote:

Since it still has the original British red and white stripes on the front of the horns it would be interesting to know if the rest of the paint scheme is also original

This is one of the two "female" Mark V, captured by the Red Army during the Russian Civil War. Most of those were used until the late 20s by the Red Army and some were later exposed outdoors in different cities (this one comes from Archangelsk).
I doubt very much that the stripes are original as all other visble markings of the tank look�seem to be�modern repaints.

Centurion · Legend

Whilst the other markings are bright and crisp and clearly repainted�the stripes are very faded, the red is almost washed out, suggesting that these are an old part of the paint scheme as might be the main colour. How old is the question?

Michel Boer · Brigadier

Here are some photo's of the same vehicle, but then before they took it into restoration.

all the best,
Michel.

-- Edited by Michel Boer at 22:17, 2007-03-28

Gwyn Evans · Legend

What an excellent find! I had known for some time that 9303 served in the Russian Civil War, and that a tank marked as 9303 was preserved, but I could never prove to my own satisfaction that the two were the same tank.�

One of the photos on the website gives a clear view of the starboard ammunition stowage lockers and just above that is what appears to be a four digit number stamped into (or cast on?) the metal.� The photo has the file name IMG_8306_sm. I won't attach it because I don't think my hardware's up to the task.� I can see the number might well be 9303, but can someone confirm that to give a positive id for this tank?

Mark Hansen · Legend

Gwyn Evans wrote:

What an excellent find! I had known for some time that 9303 served in the Russian Civil War, and that a tank marked as 9303 was preserved, but I could never prove to my own satisfaction that the two were the same tank.�

One of the photos on the website gives a clear view of the starboard ammunition stowage lockers and just above that is what appears to be a four digit number stamped into (or cast on?) the metal.� The photo has the file name IMG_8306_sm. I won't attach it because I don't think my hardware's up to the task.� I can see the number might well be 9303, but can someone confirm that to give a positive id for this tank?

Just checked that photo and the cast number definitely is 9303. It's visible on both sides of the tank, more so on the starboard.

Ironsides · Legend

Hi All, Could this be the same tank appears to be 1940's...

Cheers

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Your photo is one of a large number to show this peculiarly painted Mk V Female (it is a Female - I have a photo of the other side) in all weathers in front of a large and very ugly building and usually with lots of German soldiers around. There is another Mk V near it. I had assumed this building to be an orthodox Russian church and for some reason I have a suspicion it is Kharkov in the Ukraine. I'm sorry to be vague but I can't be more specific. In short, I think this is not the same tank.

Ironsides · Legend

Hi All,

eddie wrote:
This is one of the two "female" Mark V, captured by the Red Army during the Russian Civil War............

Note 2 mk V's.......

Mark hanson wrote:
Just checked that photo and the cast number definitely is 9303. It's visible on both sides of the tank, more so on the starboard.

Gwyn Evans Wrote:
�What an excellent find! I had known for some time that 9303 served in the Russian Civil War, and that a tank marked as 9303 was preserved, but I could never prove to my own satisfaction that the two were the same tank.

And:

Your photo is one of a large number to show this peculiarly painted Mk V Female (it is a Female - I have a photo of the other side) in all weathers in front of a large and very ugly building and usually with lots of German soldiers around. There is another Mk V near it. I had assumed this building to be an orthodox Russian church and for some reason I have a suspicion it is Kharkov in the Ukraine. I'm sorry to be vague but I can't be more specific. In short, I think this is not the same tank.

As it happens I think your right......

My point is this if this tank is one of two female MKV's captured during the russian civil war, given that the strange camoflage would be identifiable, any other pictures of identified MKV females from this era (1940's) would in fact be of 9303 and Centurion's point on the markings could be checked accordingly.......I'd actually assumed there were more of these tanks from the numbers of pictures that seem to turn up, however I'm sure it would be possible to identify 9303 given enough photographs from slightly different angles........I'm aware that there are a number of Hemaphrodites but not how many........

Cheers

�

Gwyn Evans · Legend

The problem is I have no evidence that only two Mark V Females were captured by the Reds. This is said to be the case in an earlier post, but I have nothing to prove or disprove the statement. Rather alot of Mk Vs were captured - there is a list on www.tankmuseum.ru. Of those listed as captured eight were built as Females, and there are another twenty where fate of the tank is uncertain (I exclude 9261 which was definitely a Composite). One of these is 9303.

Some of those 28 are doubtless Composites (to use the term in use at the time). Only one of the eight is noted as being armed with machine guns. That was 9431 captured at Novorossiysk in 1921. If only two Mk V Females were captured by the Reds then the two were presumably 9431 and 9303. If that's the case the picture of the Mark V in Kharkov (can someone confirm the location...) is probably 9431.

But it all depends on being absolutely sure that of all the captured Mark Vs two, and only two, were Females.

Aleksandr · Captain

This is tank from Arkhangelsk. Old photo shows other mashine - because germans has never been in Arkhangelsk. I think that it is Smolensk. Painting scheme is not original, because both simbols - English and red are used: colour of the circle shows No of battalion (red - 1, white - 2, yellow - 3), upper figure - No of company, lower - No of platoon. I'm not sure that this tank was in Arkhangelsk during the Civil war, because captured tanks were use in Red Army and plased as memorials in 1938 only.