I found the attached photo of a Mk V* belonging to the Canadian 1st tank batallion at Bovingdon in Oct 1918. Interestingly it has no call sign or home service number. The shot comes from a Canadian military article on the development of armoured tactics.
Well the 102 looks about right but I thought it was then 6 something - perhaps 8 or 9. In all honesty its just too blurry to be really sure of any number. I'll try and retrieve the original and have another look at that.
No no better here's the link you have a look www.journal.forces.gc.ca/engraph/Vol1/no2/pdf/93-102_e.pdf I note that the phot comes from "Canadian Forces Base Borden Museum" - the Canadian version of Bovingdon. Still even Bovingdon makes mistakes sometimes.
It looks like either 10253 or 10258. It wouldn't be 12256 as the Mk V* WD numbers only go up to 10300. It's really not feasible to go with more than a guess on this one due to the picture quality.
Hi Ive no idea about how high the numbers go but if the concesus is 10253 then thats fine with me, at least there is a record of this tank at Bovington which must mean that either the captions wrong suprise suprise or the records are........Im just an observer, as allways a better pic would solve it....of course you could allways email the museum....
It might help if we knew what records are being refered to. Is it possible, for example, for the tank to have been issued directly to the Canadians in, say, Sept 1918 and then transfered to bovingdon'd hands in December when it was clear that the Canadians would no longer be needing any tanks? That way it could be at Bovingdon in October but not on Bovingdon's books.
Alternatively the records could be wrong. I had to do an audit of REME's systems many years back, including the one that kept a record of every vehicle in the British Army (and the RAF too). It had only just been transfered from an old card system and, believe me, was riddled with errors. I don't see why it would be any different in 1918.
Just gone back to my original notes from The National Archives, Kew, London and spotted a small error in my transcription (which will be corrected later tonight!) but not so big an error as it makes a difference here.
The document I referred to was a memorandum to the Director of Artillery from the Director of Statistics at MWD dated 2 December 1918. It states "On 30 November 1918 nine machines were despatched to Wool. Numbers as under: Mark V* 10242, 10246, 10253, 10255, 10260, 10263, 10267, 10269 and 10271". Also in the file is a revealing erratum: "Please note that machine 10245 was sent to Wool on the 26 November and not 10255. The mistake occurred in our report from the testing ground." This is in file MUN4/5191.
Apart from the obvious inconsistency about the date 10245 was despatched to Wool, the interesting thing is that these tanks were sent there direct from the testing ground where they would have gone immediately after being built. In other words 10253 was almost certainly built in November 1918 so if this photo is of this tank it's unlikely to have been taken in October 1918.
I should also clarify for anyone who's confused about Wool. Wool is a village about two miles south of Bovington. Tanks would have delivered by rail, and Wool is on the rail line. So tanks were despatched (by rail) to Wool.
It's true that primary sources can contain errors, but they need to be shown to be erroneous and not assumed to be. I once found a document in the National Archives reporting on tank performance in the Dieppe raid with a filing note on it dated 1941 (the raid took place in 1942). Even better, The National Archives once sent me a letter dated the 32nd of July!
I suppose another way to help resolve this is to look at the War Diary for 1 Canadian Tank Battalion, and hope it was written by a helpful and diligent person who took the trouble to record tank serial numbers.
Unfortunately I don't think that particular War Diary's been put on the web yet. It's probably not a high priority.
Just gone back to my original notes from The National Archives, Kew, London and spotted a small error in my transcription (which will be corrected later tonight!) but not so big an error as it makes a difference here.
The document I referred to was a memorandum to the Director of Artillery from the Director of Statistics at MWD dated 2 December 1918. It states "On 30 November 1918 nine machines were despatched to Wool. Numbers as under: Mark V* 10242, 10246, 10253, 10255, 10260, 10263, 10267, 10269 and 10271". Also in the file is a revealing erratum: "Please note that machine 10245 was sent to Wool on the 26 November and not 10255. The mistake occurred in our report from the testing ground." This is in file MUN4/5191.
Apart from the obvious inconsistency about the date 10245 was despatched to Wool, the interesting thing is that these tanks were sent there direct from the testing ground where they would have gone immediately after being built. In other words 10253 was almost certainly built in November 1918 so if this photo is of this tank it's unlikely to have been taken in October 1918.
I should also clarify for anyone who's confused about Wool. Wool is a village about two miles south of Bovington. Tanks would have delivered by rail, and Wool is on the rail line. So tanks were despatched (by rail) to Wool.
It's true that primary sources can contain errors, but they need to be shown to be erroneous and not assumed to be. I once found a document in the National Archives reporting on tank performance in the Dieppe raid with a filing note on it dated 1941 (the raid took place in 1942). Even better, The National Archives once sent me a letter dated the 32nd of July!
All of this assumes that the number is indeed 10253 and as I said earlier I don't think we can be at all certain what those last two digits are.
I've e mailed the tank museum at Borden to see if a) they have a clearer photo that shows the WD number or b) they have other information on that photo
I've had the following reply from Lt Col Stuart L Beaton the director of the museum at Borden
Mr. Robinson: In checking with the journal staff , the WD # 10256 and it was with the 1st Canadian Tank Battalion. I hope this is of some value to your enthusiasts. There is a publication "The Royal Canadian Armoured Corps- An Illustrated History" ISBN 1-896941-17-6, that might interest you or your friends.
Looking at the detail of the records kindly provided by Gwyn there is no mention of 10256
That is very helpful - thank you. 10256 is not a number that features in my database (it will in about five minutes time...) so that's another gap plugged.
