Landships II

rwhendrix · Private

FT17 M1917 6 ton Ftbrown TX turret star with 8 painted

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

this tank:

http://runyon.lib.utexas.edu/r/RUN00000/RUN00800/RUN00897.JPG

the pictures are from the Robert Runyon Collection. Photographs from the 'South Texas' area and dated '1900 to 1920'. However the M1917 wasnt actually produced until 1918.

-- Edited by philthydirtyanimal at 17:52, 2007-10-25

rwhendrix · Private

Thanks for the info on the photo source. My deeper question is about the "star" with the "8" in the middle. I had thought all the AEF tanks used white squares, triangles or diamonds with playing card symbols in the center for unit ID. I understand this tank is in the USA in Texas 1919? But when did the army begin using the "star" instead of the playing cards. In the photo of the longshoremans strike of the 1930s in California an M1917 is shown with crossed guns or swords on the turret, but not the "star". Apperently there wasnt any standardized turret insignia in the between wars period.
rwhendrix

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

yes, as i understand it, everything you say is correct. i've been looking around for some info on this since you piqued my interest.

the only extra help i can�offer at this time is just to say that the 6 tonner never went to europe with the AEF; all the light tanks that the tank corps used were french made and none of them were M1917, so the 'AEF rules' don't necessarily apply. At war's end the tank corps was drastically cut back and reorganised, so i would speculate that they most likely changed how call signs etc were displayed in that period.

i got this info from 'treat 'em rough'. it is a detailed book and i found it rather boring!

rwhendrix · Private

Yes I to have the "treat 'em rough book" and there is a ton of info in there about the FT17's.
I will keep my eyes open for further info on the star and when it first was adopted to the tank corps. Heres another pic of an M3 Stuart with the white star and a red "5" inside it. Real curious about the numbers in the stars and what it designates.
Thanks for the info again philthyD !
rwhendrix

-- Edited by rwhendrix at 05:13, 2007-10-27

James H · Legend

I think the first 89 pages of Treat 'Em Rough�are excellent, apart from the unfortunate references to the St. Chaumond throughout.

The remaining 144 pages deal with the comparatively few American Tank actions in intense detail, with lots of individual accounts and so on. It might seem over the top to a non-American reader, but I�imagine it's a significant�episode in US military history so Capt. Wilson probably thought it was justified.

alfisherjr · Colonel

Was wondering if the star and 8 could be a unit insignia unrelated to other ID marks?

Al

rwhendrix · Private

What if it had more to do with the location being Texas at the time? You know the texas flag, the one big star......

Come In Nighthawk · Private

Those are pictures of M1917s of the 2nd Tank Co., and IIRC what Charles Lemons told me when I was visiting Knox 18 months ago, the "star" is taken from the shoulder patch of the 2nd Division, parent of the tank company, at a time when the "playing card" system used in the 1st (304th) Brigade in France had been discontinued. The change to the collar insignia of the "Infantry (Tanks)" -- the stylized heavy tank superimposed on infantry's "crossed rifles" -- could not occur until that symbol was adopted (1923, IIRC)...