Landships II

huhncc · Major

British tank crews and blue helmets?

Paul Bonnett · Hero

The Blandford book ' Army Uniforms of WW1' has an illustration, No 116, and the caption for it is:-
Private,4th Battalion Tank Corps, Domart,France 10 Aug 1918. The battalion was identified by the blue cloth flashes on the shoulder straps and blue-painted steel helmets . . . . .

Not sure how historically accurate but the book has long been a 'bible for WW1 uniforms

Paul

Ironsides · Legend

Hi, What kind of blue?

Cheers

James H · Legend

Here's the pic from Blandford (Mollo & Turner). Paul is quite right. It appears to be something like cobalt blue, but where they got the info from, I couldn't say.

The colour plates in this book are contemporary photos (some of them well-known) that have been hand-tinted, so we must assume they checked their facts somewhere along the line. Bear in mind that this book isn't infallible; they�show a pic of a Belgian Carabinier Cyclist incorrectly�wearing blue, whilst the accompanying text correctly states that that regiment�wore green.

Mark Hansen · Legend

A curious thing: I rechecked the photos I took at the AWM about 18 months ago and the tank helmet there does have a bluish-grey appearance. When I took the photo, I thought it was a repaint (the brushstrokes are very noticeable) but now I'm not so sure.

Paul Bonnett · Hero

If the paint is original on the helmet I guess it would have darkened with age so may well have been close to the 'cobalt' blue in the Blandford picture.

Ironsides · Legend

It could be that in this case the identification flashes�on the helmets has been interpreted as fully coloured helmets, its a short step from "blue flash painted on helmet" to "blue painted on helmet".....�
D battalion colours�seem to be�Blue....

Cheers

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

'Tanks and Weapons of World War I' published by Phoebus, London, and edited by Bernard Fitzsimons, 1973, has a similar picture on page 110, attributed to Julian Allen. The caption states that the tank crewmen were distinguished by their unorthodox clothing which was mostly due to their being drawn from a variety of units. However, the caption states, 'Most were issued with a blue steel helmet...'. The artist's pictures in this book are suspect; as suspect as those in, say, the Osprey books, or B T White's book. But the text is surprisingly good; each section is written by a different expert. That might not include the captions.

My own sneaky suspicion is that an artist has read that these are landSHIPS developed by the ADMIRALTY and operated by NAVY personnel. So, of course, helmets would be navy blue! And then maybe that interpretation has been perpetuated by subsequent artists. Just an opinion.

However, the helmet in the picture I refer to, does look very similar to Mark's photo, including the chain mail.

-- Edited by philthydirtyanimal at 16:59, 2008-02-02

Rectalgia · Legend

Can't see much detail in this one used in a Mk I - http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/H08749, far less the colour, but certainly no Cruise visor, nor brim (which is sensible) but it does look metallic. Incidentally, some "new" photos of those chain-mail visors, including the "suspension" at http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/helmets/mkii-cruise-visor-16027/, from an example from the small number supplied by Britain to Norway in 1915. At least the curtain wasn't waving around, which is the image that came to my mind when "seasickness" was mentioned.

MK1 Nut · Hero

Just doing some research for my Group Build model and came upon this post. I would go along with the idea that these were RN tin helmets, either dark blue or more likely a dark bue grey.�

Found this helmet while looking around... Tin Helmet. It seems to have had green paint on the top, but the untouched underside shows a dark blue/grey with blue tanned leather fixings. Could be camera lighting issues though.

The guy who is selling this is local to me, so I may go have a look.

Rob · Legend

There's a lot of discussion about the colour about the very first British helmets, in that they may have been a blue/grey colour, however i'm yet to see conclusive proof. By Cambrai helmets had been in search almost two years (the very first were issued from trench stores in late 1915) and so would most likely all be green/khaki by then. Whatever the likelihood of early helmets being a grey/blue colour, as the first Tank crews started with the leather helmets I would think the chances of Tank crews having grey/blue helmets being very very slim.

The AWM 'Tank Helmet' image by Mark Hansen is definitely NOT a 'tank helmet' despite many people claiming these to be - these are infantry issue helmets with a 'cruze' (or 'cruise', not sure of the spelling) visor, a chainmail visor designed to protect the face but it actually caused a feeling of seasickness in wearers. The few photographs i've seen of them being worn show the visor worn at the back of the head, not as designed, as protection for the rear neck area