Landships II

wuestehu wrote:

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Also...

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That's a post-war (1919) Sd.Kfz.3 Mannschaftswagen, the Armoured Personnel Carrier version of the Daimler DZVR "Schupo-Sonderwagen" Armoured Car for the Schutzpolizei (German policeforce for internal security duties).

See: http://www.landships.freeservers.com/mgm_sdkfz3_review.htm


-- Edited by Mario Wens at 10:23, 2008-06-20

The first pic is indeed an 80ps Bussing.  Ludendorf's 1917 Program called for the motorization of all heavy artillery batteries, and various manufacturers participated.   The war ended before the program was complete, however.  For example,  of the 120 ordered,  Bussing was able to deliver 109 by 30 October 1918.  They served exclusively on the Western Front.

Centurion wrote:

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Those may not be palms but the bottoms of poplars which lined many French roads and would be consistent with the Western Front

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I agree. You can make out the small rounded leaves on the tree to the right.

Upon closer examination,  I must stand corrected on the identity of this schlepper.  It is not a Bussing, but rather a Durkopp.  I appologize for not looking more closely the first time.  Both vehicles had the large rear wheels, and while the Bussing was fitted with an enclosed driver/crew compartment, the Durkopp was not.    Sorry for the error, and allow me to add these vehicles were of simple sheet-metal construction, and not armoured.

-- Edited by 28juni14 at 07:17, 2008-06-23

That was one of it's functions, yes.    There is a common series of pics showing a KD1 doing just that with a Krupp 8,8cm Flak.    The wench and cable were also ideal for extracting the traktor itself when mired. ( It was driven off the final drive much like the power-take-off found on early American tractors.)    The large rear wheels were to help in negotiating shell holes, and shattered trench systems. 
I've seen only a few pics of the Durkopp(  only 2 in my collection ), though they were produced in modest numbers.   I would suspect this is a post-armistice snapshot of a vehicle that suffered issues with it's left rear wheel and was simply abandoned during the retrograde movement back to Germany.

I agree,its a Durkopp.Note small winch between front wheels.

I wrote in the thread "Question about another German Zugwagen"thatI'd like to see other photos of the Dürkopp-Artillerie-Kraftschlepper. Et voilà, here they are. Thank you for posting wuestehu and ken musgave. For me it would be interesting to see the photo in "The Observers Army Vehicles Directory to 1940". May be you could scan it for me?

By the way here are some good pictures of German Zugkraftwagen

Büssing:

http://www.ioh.pl/forum/download.php?id=27805

Podeus:

http://www.ioh.pl/forum/download.php?id=28545&sid=17764a9c78f64129de5069951937fb81

Daimler KD I

http://www.ioh.pl/forum/download.php?id=26728

Lanz:

http://www.ioh.pl/forum/download.php?id=21368

http://www.ioh.pl/forum/download.php?id=33406

Peter

I've attached a pic of the 80ps Durkopp as accepted by the Imperial Army.    You will note the "motorwinde" or wench, located centrally beneath the vehicle. ( this tool is more clearly seen in the topic's original pic which illustrates the Durkopp slightly "belly-up".    The opject beneath the radiator sited by Ken is actually a cable guide.  The wench cable extended forward and passed through this guide when in use.  ( Look closely and you will note small upper, and lower rollers in the guide bracket.)
On 30/ 10/ 18, the Army had 91 Durkopp in service .

All traktors accepted were designed with the large rear traction wheels.   They  possessed good power to weight ratio at the sacrifice of moderate road speed. 

The Lanz traktor in the above post is a comparitively rare example of the 1914 80ps version.   The 100ps M1917 Lanz was photographed far more often, and has been posted in this forum frequently.

Thank you all.

Thank you, Ivan.  Unfortunately my keyboard does not have an Umlaut selection.   I believe the majority of viewers here are English speaking, and thought my spelling would better facilitate their understanding.
I encounter the same challenge when writing my own name; Muller, and  must insert the "e" , hence Mueller.

-- Edited by 28juni14 at 16:31, 2008-06-27

It is incorrect to say that all the heavy artillery tractors were designed with huge rear wheels. The last Bussing model introduced in 1918 had equal sized wheels and a four wheel drive as did the Magirus 70 PS. The size ratio between the front and rear of the Daimler 92/170 PS is much less extreme than some of the tractors. Incidentally the rear wheels on the Bussing and the Benz apear identical whilst the latter appears to have the same design front wheels as the Durkopp so there may have been some interchangebility between some models.

German "Umlaut" make sometime very different.

If we speak under weather:

a) Schwül = english "heat"
b) Schwul =  english "gay"

And here is a new "bomb-picture"!!!
 Ehrhardt M 1915 in service of Russian White army!! Name "Colonel Bezmolitvenny"
On turrel wroten: "Captured 16 september 1918 by Varlamovka". It is East-Ukraine, captured by Reds or by ukrainian nationalits (Petlura army). I don't know, as the Ehrhard comming from Germans to Reds or to ukrainians.

-- Edited by Ivan at 16:44, 2008-07-03

Michel Boer wrote:

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Ivan,

That's a great picture! I have to make another Ehrhardt model...

The circle with the triangle should indicate that this vehicle belonged to the Don Cossacks. It's also seen on the Austin 1st series "Medveditsa", used by the Don Cossacks.

all the best,
Michel.

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Yes, Michael. It is 5 tank-troop of Don volonteur army. He have:
4x Mk A Whippet tanks and armoured cars:
"Medveditsa" (Austin 1st series with White chassis)
"Sokol" (bilt by "Armatra" work 1918 on a FIAT 15-Ter chassis) 
"Pecheneg" (unknown)
"Polkovnik Bezmolitvenny" (capured Ehrhardt/15)
"Ust-Belokalitvinets" (unknown)
"Ataman Kaledin" (Austin 3rd series)
"Lugano-Miatikinets" (unknown)
"Stereguschiy" (unknown)
"Ataman Kaledin" (Austin 3rd series)
"Partisan" (unknown)
"Ataman Bogaevski" (Austin 3rd series)
"General Sidorin" (Austin 3rd series)
"General Kelchevski" (Austin 3rd series)

-- Edited by Ivan at 18:50, 2008-07-04

Wroten:
Armoured wagon in french Siria...
I think it is a body from Ehrhardt/17, or?

It looks like the hull of a Berliet VUM a between the wars auto blinde built specifically for use in Syria