Landships II

Ironsides · Legend

Funny Helmet German?

Centurion · Legend

I'd say its 99.9999999999999999999% certain that this is a repro. It appears to be the 1915 'helmet' designed to fit over a picklhaube (with spike removed) and was only produced in prototype form and never manufactured or issued. I think that its wrong in that the real thing had the long bit fiting closer to the face (like the nasal protector on an old Norman helmet). If it is the real thing its rarer than hens teeth.

James H · Legend

There's a clue in the title: Armee Abt.-Gaede Helm 1915 .

In 1915 Army Group Gaede was in the Vosges, and a Colonel Hesse introduced a steel skullcap weighing 4.5lb, about 1,500 of them. Don't know where he got them from - maybe at his own expense? It had a noseguard, as Cent says. The text says it's a repro, "Lighter than the original".

There's a�drawing in the helmet department at the back of Mollo & Turner, Pic. 224; described as "German Army Battalion Gaede protoype 1915". It shows the helmet fitting over the Pickelhaube, very similar to the photo. The nosepiece is vertical but noses aren't.�Mine certainly isn't. So maybe this is closer to the original than the pic in M&T.

Centurion · Legend

Unless your middle name is Cyrano its unlikely that your nose sticks out much beyond the line of your forehead and pobably not beyond the brim of a helmet - hence nose pieces on armoured helmets tend to be vertical or nearly so. There was a late middle ages man at arms helmet that looked very similar (possibly the original model?) and the nose piece was vertical.

-- Edited by Centurion at 12:08, 2008-07-11

The Mibo · Private

Seems quite a bit more cumbersome than the French steel skullcap.

James H · Legend

Whatever the Normans may have got up to, I can but present the evidence.

Hesse had the helmets made at Mulhouse/M�lhausen, where there was, apparently, a German armaments plant.

The first pic is as shown in Mollo & Turner, followed by contemporary photographs, the repro, and originals.

More original pics can be seen here:

http://www.elmetto.net/EN/articles/gaede.htm

http://nuke.combat-helmets.com/PreWar/Gaede/tabid/221/Default.aspx

It appears that there was more than one pattern; some had a platypus-like nosepiece that had an indentation to allow for the hooter.

Hesse noted that most head/facial wounds from splinters, etc were sustained from the front and above, which may explain the rather Neanderthal brow. Why the nosepiece is convex isn't clear, unless it was for ballistic reasons or to shed rainwater.

I have taken the trouble to measure the projection of my nose from a plane between my forehead and chin, and find that it is very slightly over an inch, something my good lady sometimes points out when she is losing an argument. I grant you that my occasional friend Mr. Ricky Hatton can make no such claim. Any further information about projections is of concern only to the lady previously mentioned. And a small circle of friends.

Centurion · Legend

I still maintain that in all the photos enclosed in the previous thread the nasal piece is much closer to the vertical than on the e bay repro. Perhaps this version was intended for trench raids as a means of giving a 'Glasgow Kiss'!

-- Edited by Centurion at 17:13, 2008-07-11

James H · Legend

Perhaps the Gefreiter-about-town wore his at a�jaunty angle. I wouldn't turn my nose up at one.

But now it gets really interesting. This was issued to Army Group Pinnochio:

Ironsides · Legend

Hi All, just goes to prove you can learn something new even if you know it allready, Id seen the pic from Mollo & Turner, Pic. 224 previously but didnt make the connection as thay appear so different.....It seems to me there are at least two Helmets of this type this may be as the result of development or simply asking two different people to make them, each making there own�interpretation on it .. hence the variation...
In any Case James I havent yet been able to find Army group pinnochio ......perhaps you can give me your source biggrin

Cheers

-- Edited by Ironsides at 09:56, 2008-07-19

James H · Legend

Ivor - the answer is right under your nose.

It would appear that someone on the French side of things had a similar idea. I haven't got any more info.

-- Edited by James H at 14:58, 2008-08-01

James H · Legend

More pics of the Gaede helmet, in the Bavarian Military Museum, with what look like the French skullcap and the Italian Farina.