Landships II

Centurion · Legend

Odd Mk IV

Ironsides · Legend

Hi Centurion, this image turned up on ebays a while and I seem to remember some discussion about the box and rails in a tread on the forum but am unable to locate it, oops here it is and in a thread�I started.......

Odd box

Possible signalling equipment?
Gwyn says referring to a pic of another wreck ...." This tank is 2648, "Lyric" of 12 Battalion.� Crew number L52.� It was subsequently captured by the German Army, repainted and used by them."
Obviously the german paint wore off.......could it be the same tank?

Cheers confused

-- Edited by Ironsides at 11:09, 2008-08-20

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Hi all,

I did indeed say that and I was in fact wrong. The tank 2648, formerly L52 "Lyric" of 12th Battalion was in fact presented to the town of Suippes after the war, whilst another tank, a Beutepanzer was left out in the countryside at Fort de la Pompelle. I now understand that the Beutepanzer having become a danger it was replaced by 2648 sometime before WW2.

I don't think there's anything particularly unusual about the box; it's certainly not unique. It just isn't often photographed this clearly. I believe it is what's referred to in contemporary papers as "top towing gear".

Gwyn

Centurion · Legend

The only problem I have with this is that I have seen a photo of WW2 German troops with the tank at Fort de la Pompelle and there is no box on the top of the tank! This would suggest that perhaps the first tank at the fort had the box and the replacement did not.
How common is the top towing box? I've only seen two photos with it and only one photo with that extension to the rails (which would be fairly obvious from most angles)

mad zeppelin · Commander in Chief

Unditching rail extensions were later used by Beute-Abteilung 13 on the turrets of their Mk.IVs. This would indicate that at Cambrai at least 5 such tanks were captured by the Germans.

Centurion · Legend

mad zeppelin wrote:

Unditching rail extensions were later used by Beute-Abteilung 13 on the turrets of their Mk.IVs. This would indicate that at Cambrai at least 5 such tanks were captured by the Germans.

Turret or top towing box?

Drader · Lieutenant

Is the 'top towing box' used for towing sledges and also is the mechanism that linked it to the driver's cab visible in the photo used for unhitching the tow? I suppose this would make more sense than the steering attachment theory.

David

Gwyn Evans · Legend

There was more than one tank at Fort de la Pompelle when the German Army arrived in 1940, and it depends which tank you're looking at Centurion.

It is definite that Lyric had the box. I can post a photo to show this if necessary. However Lotte didn't, and I can post a photo to prove that too.

David - It is possible that the connection to the cab is to unhook the tow, but I don't know how this worked and I don't think anyone else does either. (I wait to be proved wrong, hopefully).

Gwyn

mad zeppelin · Commander in Chief

Extensions: Abt. 13 had them atop the turret.

L.52 originally had the towing box fitted, it was removed during the time the tank sat near Fort de la Pompelle. The pictures taken in 1940 show it without box.

Drader · Lieutenant

Looking through the Osprey NVG on the Mark IV last night and I noticed that the colour plate for the Beutepanzer IV named Dora showed the unditching rail extensions.

David

Centurion · Legend

mad zeppelin wrote:

Extensions: Abt. 13 had them atop the turret.

L.52 originally had the towing box fitted, it was removed during the time the tank sat near Fort de la Pompelle. The pictures taken in 1940 show it without box.

What do you mean by turret on a MK IV?

mad zeppelin · Commander in Chief

Abt.14's "Dora" not only had the extension in the original place but also the lower part of a tow box.

Centurion: In my understanding, the tower of a Mk.IV is that part where driver and tank commander sit (in Beute-Mk.IV also the bow machine gunner).

Centurion · Legend

Ah the cab. Are you sure about having a driver, commander and mg gunner in the cab? I can't see there would be room. In British tanks the commander would fire the machine gun.

mad zeppelin · Commander in Chief

Absolutely sure, the bow gunner was a sergeant (Unteroffizier), the chief machine gunner in a tank. In a male Mk.IV he would be the only machine gunner (the sponson MGs operated by the brakes men, which belonged to the mechanics). In a female there would be four more sponson machine gunners of lower rank.
The bow gunner sat between the driver and the commander on a somewhat elevated seat.� I've only the description, no picture to illustrate.