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Post Info TOPIC: Villers-Bretonnaux Whippets


Corporal

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Villers-Bretonnaux Whippets
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Gentlemen

I'm trying to designing my own 1/72 Whippet tank to be made from card.  I have a couple of whippets to depict, Firefly, Caesar II, Fanny's sister etc.. But I've not been able to find out any of the names or numbers of the whippets involved in the battle of Villers-Bretonnaux.  There were 7-8 whippets (depending on which account you read) involved in a counter attack but I cant seem to find any details of individual tanks?

Does any one know any details at all about the tanks involved or could you suggest how I could find out about details like that?


Andy



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Legend

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That's curious. Jones/Rarey/Icks's account of Villers-Bretonneux mentions on several occasions that Britsh Tanks countered the A7Vs, without naming the type used. The last line says that a wounded officer who was being evacuated met a Tank Company officer who "ordered British Tanks forward."

But their list of Whippet actions cites March 21st at Colincamps as the first, and says that actions were few and of minor importance until March 31st, when Second Somme ended, then nothing until Amiens. Their other lists of actions by Tank type don't mention Villers-Bretonneux.

Ellis and Chamberlain say that Whippets were first used on March 26th at Mailly, followed by "several other skirmishes in the period immediately following," then, again, nothing until August.

Colincamps is quite a way from Villers-Bretonneux, about 25 miles north. Got any more details?

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taz


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Part of the account of F. Mitchell, M.C

But the day was not yet over. As I peeped through my flap I noticed that the Boche infantry were forming up some distance away preparing for an attack. Then my heart bounded with joy, for away on the right I saw seven small whippets, the newest and fastest type of tank, racing into action.

They came on at ten to fifteen miles an hour, heading straight for the German infantry. I could see the latter scattering in all directions. The whippets plunged into the midst of them, ran over them, spitting fire into their retreating ranks.

Their work was soon over. They had nipped an attack in the bud, but only three, their tracks dripping with blood, came back out of the seven; the other four were left burning out there in front. Their crews could not hope to be made prisoners after such slaughter.
 These Whippets were attacked by A7V 525 "Siegfried" about 800 m from Cachy, 4 were destroyed and 3 retreated.

Regards Eddie

-- Edited by taz at 20:49, 2008-09-15

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taz


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Another incident in the area:

The epic story of "Musical Box" was the greatest single tank action of the I World War. Whippet number 344 of the 6 Tank Battalion with the crew of three: Lt. C. B. Arnold - commander, W. J. Carney - driver, and C. Ribbans - gunner, performed a real cavalry style raid behind German lines. They moved at zero hour on the 8 of August with the rest of the troops across the country, passing the railway at Villers - Bretonneux after which they became detached from the main body of their battalion. Arnold noticed some Mark V tanks and Australian infantry of the 60 Brigade under fire of the German artillery battery. He attacked without hesitation passing in front of guns and next behind them. A machine gun fire from "Musical Box" killed 30 soldiers and allowed infantry to move forward. Arnold and his crew for the next 9 hours attacked the German rear installation, infantry, and wagons, on many occasions coming to the rescue of the British cavalry. They dispersed a whole battalion of infantry in a camp in a small valley encountered between Bayonvillers and Harbonnieres. They attacked a transport column of German 225 Division inflicting heavy casualties. Conditions inside the tank after many hours of uninterrupted action become so difficult that the crew used mouthpieces of their standard gas mask for breathing. At that time German guns entered the fight and "Musical Box" was soon ablaze. The crew baled out and started rolling on the ground to extinguish their burning uniforms. Approaching Germans shot driver Carney and took Lt. Arnold and Ribbans prisoner. The burned out wreck of the Whippet tank was later found by advancing British troops. The action by Lt. Arnold proved that great results could have been obtained by aggressively led tanks, unfortunately tying Whippets to cavalry proved to be a wrong method of employment for the formidable weapon.

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Legend

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The action F Mitchel describes sounds very much like that of the 26th March at Colincamps when 12 (not 7) Medium A's engaged 300 German troops advancing in close formation and then went on to break up further German attacks. I have seen reference to Whippets exchanging fire with an A7V at Villers - Bretonneux  apparently to little effect.. I'll have to delve to see where this comes from - which may take a little time as I am currently transfering data onto a new computer and having a reorganise at the same time.

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Legend

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The text quoted by Taz comes from "Tank Warfare" by Frank Mitchell MC page 193 and is definitely an account of action at Villers-Bretonneux on 24 April 1918 when his tank was engaged in the first encounter between British and German tanks. Seven Medium A tanks (Whippets) were involved in the action. These were from X Company 3rd Battalion. The only number I have to hand is reported in Hundleby & Strasheim's "The German A7V tank..." as A256, which was knocked out and its commander, 2/Lt Dale killed.

Gwyn

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Legend

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A couple of references that might help:

Glanfield says, "Captain Tommy Price's detachment of seven Medium A tanks was alerted by a message dropped from a reconnaissance aircraft that two enemy battalions were grouping in a hollow near Cachy. Mitchell saw the Whippets go in at full throttle."

As Gwyn says, they were from X Company, C Battalion.

That's the best I can do for the mo. Hope this gives you a clue.

Taz's second account must be of action at V-B as part of Amiens.

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Commander in Chief

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X. Company
H-Section
A.286
A.244
A.255
A.256
E-Section
A.233
A.236
A.277
Which three of these were casualties together with A.256 is not clear.

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MZ


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Thank you very much for all your reply's

I will let you know how the model turns out.

I have attached a picture of the plain 3D model

Andy



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Private

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This subject is of great interest to me, for reasons I shall come to, and I have read a good deal about it but never recall it being mentioned that any of the whippets had a name. Indeed I regard it as unlikely - the crews in question were an emergency scratch company jut thrown together and it is unlikely they had time to name their tanks.

My grandfather (Arthur Harold James Lincoln MM and Bar) was a crew member in Harry Dale's tank. The third crew member was called Hebert (I believe Herbert was the driver). Harry Dale is buried at Crucifix Corner Cemetery less than a kilometer from where he was killed. I have been to Crucifix Corner Cemetery and noticed an entry in the visitors' book there made by Harry's Great nephew (John Dale) and have gone on to contact him and to meet him and walk the area behind the cemetery, where Harry was killed and my grandfather and Herbert both wounded and taken prisoner.

Accounts of this incident have to be treated carefully. Many of them (including the account in the Official History) are inaccurate.

In another coincidence, Harry Dale's niece worked in a bank with Mitchell (who was an eye witness to the incident) without knowing whom he was until too late. I have heard it said (I don't know whether this its true) that Mitchell was the last surviving Tank Corps officer.

Incidentally, I do not believe that the Whippets actually shot at the A7V. Indeed it would appear that they did not even know they were being attacked by the A7Vs. Harry Dale's whippet may have been knocked out by an A7V, in which case it was probably the first tank in history to be COMPLETELY knocked out by another tank, as opposed to damaged.

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Major

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Simon,

Another coincidence - Lincoln was the place where the whippet was manufactured by Fosters!!

Do you know in which tank your grandfather fought?

Tanks3

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Corporal

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I've listed all the info I've so far found on Whippets here, it may be of interest.

http://landships.googlepages.com/whippets

just follow the links.

Note that this info is primarily taken from the Transcripts of 3rd, 6th and 9th Tank Battalions' War diaries available form Bovington.



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My Grandfather was, I believe, in A256.

I may add to the information on the excellent pages that munkeezulu refers to that:
When on or about 25/4/1918 Captain Tommy Price (commander of X Company) and another officer returned to the wreck of A256 to attempt to establish what had happened to the crew they were attacked by a German machine gun firing from inside the tank and both wounded.  One of the two officers wrote to my Great Grandmother about this, but, sadly, his letter does not survive.

I also know that later (I do not have the notes to hand, but I believe later in 1918) Harry Dale's body was found near the tank (having presumably been removed from it by the Germans in order to position the gun which fired on Price) and buried where it was found.  It was later exhumed and reburied in the nearby Crucifix Corner Cemetery.

Does anyone know of any photographs of A256?

-- Edited by Simon Bull at 21:57, 2008-10-25

-- Edited by Simon Bull at 21:57, 2008-10-25

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