Landships II

James H · Legend

U.S. Tank Troops in Manchester?

Centurion · Legend

They may not have been heavy tankers in which case they wouldn't go to Bovington. The Renault FT training being in France.

Liverpool was the main transatlantic port and used to get very busy with ships 'stacked' waiting to enter and unload. It might have been prudent to divert the ship up the canal to Salford as apart from in one of Bill Tidy's cartoons (Grimsdyke saga) no U boats were sighted in the canal!

James H · Legend

It seems that the Bovington-bound men went to Southampton via Brest, and after training landed at Le Havre. As Cent says, other Tank crews went direct to France. None of which explains the pic. Might be an untrustworthy caption.

James H · Legend

Found this picture in a book of photographs of old Salford. Caption reads: "This photograph shows the arrival of a boat-load of American troops on October 18th, 1918."

I've found this pic of the helmet worn by the Manchester Ship Canal Company Dock Police. Formed 1893 and disbanded 1993, "their jurisdiction extended from Manchester to Eastham, Merseyside where the Manchester Ship Canal started at the River Mersey, along the length of the Canal and within one mile of same and to its subsidiary waterways, canals and adjoining works."The police officer in the photo seems to be wearing this model. You could almost say it fits the Bill.

If the ship was actually docked at Liverpool, the officer would be from the River Mersey Police. There was no dock at the Eastham end of the canal in 1918, so I'm pretty confident that the ship really is in Salford/Manchester.

The troops are wearing the Overseas Cap, so does that mean they were arriving from France rather than from the USA? Some accounts by American troops describe landing at Liverpool, but I haven't seen any reports of landing at Manchester.

I can do some digging amongst local sources. Does anyone recognise the American unit?

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jagjetta · Brigadier

FWIW, the third officer on the gangplank is wearing an aviator's Observer wing badge on his left chest.

John

James H · Legend

Excellent spot, Jack. The suggestion on the original photo that they are "Tank boys" is looking increasingly like a bit of embellishment. From what I've found so far, there was a suspicion that U.S. troops introduced "Spanish flu" to the area. The museum is only a couple of miles away - I'll pop in and see if there's any more info there.

Thanks again.

James H · Legend

Have been to the museum, found the original photographs, and looked at the local paper archives, but there is no further information. There's a photo of President Wilson inspecting a captured U-boat from a passing tugboat at Salford Docks in December 1918, but nothing about U.S. troops arriving.

As ther curator pointed out, the paper might be prohibited from reporting troop movements anyway.

Stop Press: The ship was H.M. Transporter City of Exeter. Built 1914, she had been detained in June 1918 in Philadelphia because of Spanish Flu amongst the crew, but was later allowed to sail.

-- Edited by James H on Wednesday 8th of June 2011 09:43:23 PM

James H · Legend

Found it. Not Tank men at all, but elements of the U.S. 88th Div.

From here:

'M' Company was spirited away to Philadelphia at 4 A. M. of August 14. (1918) It went aboard the "City of Exeter" at daybreak and sailed for New York Harbor that day. By the next morning a fleet had sprung up around it. There were 13 other vessels, carrying for the most part units of the 88th Div.

Captain Schenk was boat commander of the City of Exeter, Lt. W. T. Potts was adjutant of it.

On Aug. 28, 12 days after the date of sailing, the regiment, less M Company, debarked at Liverpool. That city's citizens gave an enthusiastic and genuine welcome; the Kins of England, a personal letter to each man.

That afternoon the battalions, each on a separate train, entrained for Winchester.

'M' Coy, which had been carried past Liverpool during these days, was considered lost by Regimental Headquarters. As a matter of fact it was progressing very well. The City of Exeter was taken to Manchester down the Manchester Ship Canal. The boat traveled very slowly down this canal, and the English people crowded the sides all the way. Children ran for miles, following the boat and catching the coins which the men, living up to the reputation that every American is a millionaire, were throwing down to them. One Englishwoman followed the boat for two miles, wheeling a baby-carriage, with one occupant, before her. M Company went through Southhampton and Le Havre and found most of the regiment encamped in pup tents in the town of Les Laumes, (Cote D'Or) the night of Sept. 3.

And see below. From http://www.distantcousin.com/Military/wwi/units/usa/88thDivision/Pages.asp?Page=035

And Ellerman Lines City of Exeter (1914-1950) returning troops to Fremantle, 1919.

Sorry to crap on about this in a rather incestuous fashion, but at least we know they weren't Tank crews. Jagjetta, does this make sense to you?

-- Edited by James H on Thursday 9th of June 2011 01:35:10 PM

-- Edited by James H on Thursday 9th of June 2011 02:18:30 PM

Rectalgia · Legend

James H wrote:

...And Ellerman Lines City of Exeter (1914-1950) returning troops to Fremantle, 1919. ...

Hmmm ... I wonder if she was hit by the Spanish 'flu again. I recall one little patch of Fremantle cemetery having a score or so of AIF graves with 1919 dates - though August sounds a bit early. I suppose it was most likely another ship on consideration, the picture seems to show City of Exeter coming into North Quay - if there were any severe infectious diseases on board she would probably have been parked in Gage Roads instead, until it had run its course (can you imagine what that would be like?). Must check those headstones again when I have a chance.

James H · Legend

AFAICT, the Exeter made at least 3 trips to Oz in 1919, (Jan, Jul, and Dec). But, as you say, there will have been lots of other transports involved.