Landships II

Ironsides · Legend

Real or Fake

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

Definitely a fake body: too high above the tracks, exhaust pipe (muffler) too far out from the body, track plates are widely separated, generally the proportions are wrong. Turret looks better, but has a vision slit where it shouldn't, and the gun mount is wrong.

Fairly sure that General Estienne is identified as a replica in this list

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_FT-17.pdf

maybe it was made for a part in a film? Maybe 'A Very Long Engagement'?

-- Edited by philthydirtyanimal at 14:32, 2009-01-03

-- Edited by philthydirtyanimal at 15:07, 2009-01-03

elbavaro · Commander in Chief

I agree to philthydirtyanimal's thinking.

Ironsides · Legend

I would agree but not because things are a bit out of proportion but rather the overall quality doesnt convince me it is a real FT... a tin plate mockup rather then a "replica".... the other replica on shadocks list is much more convincing except for the tracks...
The FT in "A Rather long Engagement" though appears to be the secound saumur FT on�the list�you can see more pics here...

http://www.peachmountain.com/5star/Museum_Tanks_Musee_des_Blindes_Saumur_French_WWI.asp

it has the same markings and colouring and of course the Girod turret.....It only actually appears for 2 secounds in the film, shame it could'nt have been a little longer.......

The recent posts on the Renault Ft got me to wondering what were the main differences bettween the prototype and production tanks and�in particular the differences bettween Renault produced tanks and those from the other companys.....

Cheers

Michel Boer · Brigadier

I still wouldn't mind having it in the backyard (not sure about the mrs though...)

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

The FT in the Tank Museum, Bovington, England, is a very early one; don't know if it is a prototype, but it is one of the very first made:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7700258@N05/937552518/in/set-72157601073012940/

The front bit, just under the turret and right in front of the driver's eyes, is cast as one section. And the 'nose' has no rivets

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7700258@N05/936710083/in/set-72157601073012940/

And the commander's cupola looks different too.

elbavaro · Commander in Chief

Well maybe this is one of the earliest type of turret, Francois had written about in the thread before?

Ironsides · Legend

The Bovington Ft I think is one of the�first produced as far as I can tell only 100 were built in this way....

Cheers

-- Edited by Ironsides at 02:29, 2009-01-05

Tanker · Field Marshal

Bonjour,

This tank is a replica built by "Association du Carrefour de l'Armistice".
This Renault is just in front the wagoon's museum in Compi�gne forest (near Rethondes).

About Renault's tank in Bovington. It's an Instruction tank and really the number 16. The number 66016 is the good one. 66xxx is used for the tanks builts by Renault.
This tank was given by the French Army to the British Army during the war.
About 200 hundred instruction's tanks were built. These tanks were not built with armored stell (in french "acier c�ment�") and only used for training.
The number 16 wear the first Renault turret not used on serie's tanks. Except for the turret, it's a serie model and not a prototype.

Always about Renault. Here is the names used in french military documents to call this "char d'assaut". (Tank is a British name forbiden by G�n�ral Estienne inside the "Artillerie Sp�ciale").

Char l�ger - char l�ger Renault - char TSF Renault - char mitrailleur Renault - char canon Renault - char mitrailleur type Renault - char canon type Renault - char canon 75 - char Renault.
Like Fran�ois Vauvillers said FT or FT 17 was never used by the French Army during the war.
In 1925 the french military document "Instruction sur l'emploi des chars de combat" used the name Renault FT to called this tank.

For FT 18, it's probably because the first Renault document is only called "Char d'assaut 18 HP
Given in this document the motor's power of the tank was from 18 HP at 800 t/m and 39 hp at 1500 t/m

Michel