Garry Redmon at the Museum sent me this very kind message:
The FT17 (Berliet) has now been reassembled, painted and placed in the World War I exhibit hall in the museum. I will post photos of the finished piece in the next few days. I will also amend the information about where they came from.
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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
It seems that we have fallen into the habit of referring to the Renault as the FT17. As Francois pointed out recently, it was actually the FT, modele 1917. I've just had a look through Steve Zaloga's book, and he refers to it as the FT throughout. He makes no mention of an FT18, and neither does Jeudy.
A German website claims that the FT18 was an inter-war development of the M1917, but I'm not convinced. The pic looks like just another M1917.
The curator at the Patton Museum offers this: Even the French acknowledge that the FT18 designation is unofficial, but it was used. The FT18 was also commonly known as the FT17 (Berliet) after the company that cast the turrets, but FT18 is easier to write for our purposes.
But Zaloga says that the improved, "omnibus" round turret that became available in 1918 was produced by Girod and that both that and the polygonal turret were fitted to Fts by Renault and other manufacturers.
So I am now confused as to what exactly the Berliet turret was.
What is certain is that the FT18 was not a separate design, but appears to have simply been an unofficial term for some FTs that happened to be produced during 1918.
Does this make sense?
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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
I think this 'problem' is very similar to the Volkswagen Beetle. Everyone knows what you are talking about, and everyone calls it by that name. But that's not its name. It was just named Volkswagen.
The technical details of the vehicle are unchanged by whatever you want to call it.
It is, in my opinion, important (and enjoyable) to make the effort to try to get the facts straight. But that's just one little opinion.
It could be argued that the essence of communication is to try to reduce the amount you are misunderstood. So, if (almost) everybody wants to call it FT17, and you call it char de artillerie especial, or whatever, then you may not be communicating as effectively as you could be.
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Also your comparisation with the Beetle is excellent. Everybody knows it but also the specialists know the differences (early, middle, late an Mexican production).
I guess I still will call it the Renault FT 17, but I want to check out exactly the differences (and still talking about the FT 17).
Hi James maybe these pics help.... is this the manufacturer P Girod.... However not all Cast turrets have this marking could it be that some were also made by Berliet or other manufacturers.....