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Post Info TOPIC: GS Wagons - how marked?


Colonel

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GS Wagons - how marked?
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Can anyone tell me how pre- and early war GS wagons were maked?  I presume regiment and serial number were stencilled on the body in various places and would appreciate whatever you can share.

Al

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Hero

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Hello Al,
General Service Wagons of the BEF,  when marked, carried the divisional emblem squarely on the rear tail gate.   The unit markings appeared between the first, and second body staves on either side of the vehicle.  Finally, the company, or batterie symbol appeared directly under the driver's seat, and the top-left corner of the tail gate.   There may have been field applied variations, but the above is the basic WD application instructions.
It is important to understand that the traditional Regimental pride that had so fueled servicemen in HM army in the past was manifested anew in divisional assignment during the Great War.  Hence, the prolific divisional symbols that appeared not only on service uniforms, but vehicles as well.

Don't know if it will, but I hope this helps ....

-- Edited by 28juni14 at 18:07, 2009-02-19

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Colonel

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Thanks for your reply.  Would the divisional symbol be in color, similar to the arm patch, white lettering, or what?  If letters, could you give me a couple of examples?

Regards . . .

Al

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Hero

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Certainly,  the symbol on the tail gate was on a 10in square or rectangle background.  An example would be the Guards with their ominous open eye symbol emblazoned on the square. 
My own family blood attachment was with the 36th Division, who adapted the Red Hand on a white shield late '17-early'18.   Of course by then most of the original Ulstermen were long dead, and their ranks were being filled by men of other than Scot extraction. 
As a brief addendum Ulster migration to the US after the siege of Derry, and during the 1730s provided America a core of individualism that still exists today.  They provided about 40% of the strength for the Continental Army, an overwhelming majority of men to the CSA , and at least 10 presidents.   Yet because of their individualism they never were a political block in the sense of ethnicity.   So obscure is their past intellectually, that many Americans who think they are of Irish blood are in reality descendants of these hardy Ulster families who were America's frontiersmen (Boone, Crockett, etc). 
  Please forgive my endulgence in ramblings other than a simple answer to your question.

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Colonel

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Not at all . . . although the family originally came from East Anglia, my great-great grandmother was a Fletcher.  I understand that I'm entitled to wear that tartan.

Al

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Corporal

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i have  few examples of what you want , they were numbered on the seat supporting blocks from one- four each number denotes whats in the wagon on ASC wagons some were painted with RATIONS under the footboard and across the front boards, my friends grandfarther can be seen with one painted 5th royal sussex, i have about i think 6 photos or so of markings

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In memory of Pte L Bristow 1/RWK kia 17-12-14 wulvergheim belguim


Colonel

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Would love to see the images . . . is there a chance that you could scan and post them?

Al


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Corporal

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Some i can others you need a eye glass to see, the rations one for example ! i will do best.

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Corporal

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a few originals ,

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Colonel

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Thank you, Nigel.   Such tid-bits go a long way in filling in the blanks.

Al

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Private

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Brilliant topic. I actually breed draught horses and have collected a considerable pile of military harness. What I am having great difficulty with is finding descriptions with illustrations of both artillery horse harness and the standard military harness used for either a pair or four horses in a waggon GS. Can any one help please?

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Corporal

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Hi !
i too have two complete sets of GS harness (wheeler sets) your harness for wheeler sets should consist of two short wire bound leather traces and two long ones of the same a breast collar and with neck piece ,breeching with long hip straps ! the best diagrams i have are in a book called early british quick firing artillery by len trawin !also there are diagrams in the ASC manual 1912, i have a gs wagon and a British water cart if ever you want to put those draughts too !!!

regards Nige



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In memory of Pte L Bristow 1/RWK kia 17-12-14 wulvergheim belguim


Colonel

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Would you be so kind as to copy and post drawings of the harness?  I've pretty much figured out hoe the traces are attached to the wagon, but am having trouble visualizing how the horses are attached to the pole.

TIA

Al

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Corporal

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hope this helps a bit, with a gs wagon the horses were attached with chains off the breast collar ill try to down load a photo for you.

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Colonel

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Thank you once again . . . you don't know how hard I've searched for this information.  What is the source?

Will look forward to seeing the picture.

Al



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Corporal

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Hi Al and co !
here is a photo of a mk x you can see the use of chains connecting the pair to the pole with chains, i have a simular photo but with brest harness and not this ASC harness, you can see markings on here too this wagon being marked no 2 of the 4 attached to a infantry battalion each number representing what was being carried by that wagon, i have a large archive of info on great war HT so any questions please ask,
regards Nige

-- Edited by Nigel on Tuesday 12th of May 2009 09:47:55 AM

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