Landships II

So .... because of the Austrians we lost the war. ;o)

*just kidding!

Very interesting indeed.

-- Edited by elbavaro at 16:04, 2009-03-01

To add to this discussion,  I believe a plant was established in Steyr before the war.  A number of machines were procured by the KuK and were photographed in use prior to hostilities.   However, they were not used as prime movers for the M.11 30,5cm Morser.  That task was ably accomplished by the purpose designed Austro-Daimler M12 zugmaschine.  

I assume by "baby Holt" we are refering to the Holt 45.   France had procured 352 of these vehicles in 1914.   The British much prefered the Holt 75 & 120; getting 1,362, and 243 of each respectfully.  

Because Holt could only fill about half the 1917 orders for the US government,  other manufacturers participated under license; none of which survive today;

Reo Motor Car Co.
Maxwell Motor Car Co.
Federal Motor Truck Co.
Interstate Motor Co.
Chandler Motor Car Co. 

-- Edited by 28juni14 at 20:28, 2009-03-01

Sorry,
Of course I was speaking of Baby Holt 45 cv.
The number of 352 Baby Holt is probably for the war. The first Holt were only ordered by French GQG in August 1916.

Colonel Estienne was in Great Britain in June 25 and 26th, 1916. In his report he speak of a camp 130 km North of London.
He was not yet in Artillerie Special but always Artillerie Commander of an Army Corps.
 
General Buttler is coming in Marly le Roy in December 14th, 1916. This visit was delayed since July. The Saint was not ready and always in factory . . . 

2 British Mark (male et femelle) with their teams (4 officers and 20 men) were also in Marly le Roy to be tested by the French Army.
Coming from Wavran station, and arrived in Noisy le Roy station on 12 December, they returned by train towards Wavran station on 26 December.
General Estienne is returned in Great Britain (3 and 4 March 1917) for test of a new tank and meetings with Brtish tank Corps officiers

Bonne soirée - Michel

Hello everybody,

I would like to thank more especially James H, 28juni14 and Tanker Michel (I would say 'tankiste', in disregard of general Estienne's stipulations) for their very interesting contributions.

Two things about the French Holt tractors :

- the history about Tunisia has got some reality, but not connected with Estienne. The first two 'half-tracked' Holt 75 HP (and likely the only two ever used in the French Army) did come from a large French farm in Tunisia and were used as heavy artillery tractors in the Vosges in 1915 (Estienne was not on that part of the front). I have recalled the story in GBM 86, but this had been written long before my intervention, by different authors.

- apart from the two 75 HP quoted above, the French Army seems to have been using only the smaller Baby Holt 45 HP full-tracked type. Again, the story is told in GBM 86.

I am absolutely amazed by the figure of 352 Baby Holt acquired by France (information by '28juni14'.

What I know for sure is :
- the first French Government order, placed on 21 September 1915, stood for 10 caterpillars, to be delivered by Schneider who acquired the license in early 1915, as said by Michel. These first 10 caterpillars were delivered in early 1916.
- the total number of Baby Holt servicing in the French Army amounted to only 19 pieces on Nov. 11 1918.

From the two above ascertained informations, we can deduct that some other (small-size ?) purchases were done in the meantime. But 352 pieces seems quite a huge lot. I do not mean it is impossible. I just mean I am surprised.

'28juni14', do you have more precise informations ? Thank you in advance for this, as I would much like to improve my documentation of this point.

Regards

François

Gentlemen,  the order numbers are from Caterpillar historical sources.  They suggest French agents approached Holt in late 1914.  Perhaps the official forms were not in the French registry until documents were received, or Caterpillar simply has the date wrong.  The same source says the French bought 18 Holt 75s later in the war.
I've attached two pics illustrating Holt 45s as prime movers for French Army heavy artillery.