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Post Info TOPIC: Tanks around Arras


Private

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Tanks around Arras
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I've found a reference in a reminiscence to a tank attack near Arras on 24th December 1917. Would anyone know whether this is likely to be accurate? Were there German tanks active in that area at that time? Was there any sort of attack there on that day? Any information or leads will be very greatly appreciated.

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Legend

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Hi, Gregory. To the best of my knowledge, there were no actions between the end of the Cambrai action (Nov 1917) and March '18, and no German Tanks (A7V or Beute) in action prior to March.

Can you give any more details?

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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.

Anonymous

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The information comes from a memoir, written in Chinese, by a member of the Chinese Labour Corps. He says that he was working with his mates in a trench near Arras, when, on 24th December, there was a lot of shelling and then "in the moonlight" they saw a line of "enemy tanks" approaching. When they looked around for their officers, none was to be found. Nor any NCOs. So they panicked, and ran for their base (via trenches and a bumpy road), which was at Le Portel. Apparently they got there that night, and the British were settling down to celebrate Christmas. They complained to the headquarters staff, who told them to write the details down and submit the paper to their commandant. They did, but never received a reply. They had two days' break, accommodated in an empty shop, before being ordered to Calais to resume work. Now, the fact that Le Portel is 90 miles or so from Arras is just a fine detail not elaborated upon! Nor is it explained how the Chinese knew that the tanks were enemy ones, in the moonlight. Because of this, I became suspicious about the whole story. I've been trying to learn more about the tanks. Your response confirms what I had found out but was not confident of, so for that I'm very grateful. I imagine that something happened at the time, but not what was described. The story is repeated often in Chinese sources as evidence of British indifference to the Chinese, but it doesn't ring true.

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Thank you for your answer and for your confirmation that there were no tank engagements at Arras at Christmas. I replied a couple of days ago, but it seems that the text is still in the ether, or else I pressed the wrong button.

The reminiscence was written in Chinese, by a CLC labourer who maintains he was working on the trenches around Arras on 24th December, when the group was hit by a 'thunderstorm' of shells, and they saw 'a line of enemy tanks' 'in the moonlight'. When they looked around for their British officers and NCOs, these had all disappeared. So the labourers decided to leg it back to their base at Le Portel. When they got there, they saw the British settling down for Christmas.

When I saw this story, I was immediately suspicious. Tanks at Arras in December (but I wasn't sure, hence my post). In any case, identification of them in the moonlight. Complete abandonment of the labourers by their officers. An overnight march from Arras to Le Portel (90 miles or so). Nothing seemed really plausible.

We may have here a case of a rechaping of memory to perpetuate (?or create) certain perceptions. Obviously something did happen, but exactly where and when it is now impossible to say.

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Major

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Interesting,

Certainly no German tanks at that time.  However, in the dark, a horse drawn wagon making noise could be imagined to be a tank by fidgety people.

In my experience, it was the civilians who cleared out LONG before the troops ever did.  First hint of trouble and they're gone. 

Most likely faulty memories by this fellow who wasn't told about a Christmas truce because he was Chinese.

My thoughts.

ron

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Poniatowski


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Thanks very much for your post.

Was there a Christmas truce in 1917?

One other possibility occurs to me - maybe the Chinese mixed up Christmas and Easter, and actually what he got caught up in was the Spring Offensive in 1918.

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