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Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> Tanks -> Saumur's Saint Chamond serial number.
Post Info TOPIC: Saumur's Saint Chamond serial number.
Tanker


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Saumur's Saint Chamond serial number.
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Bonjour,

Comming from SHD Vincennes, some informations about Saumur's Saint Chamond.

The serial number of this tank is probably the number 62770.

Perhaps it's now possible to found other informations at Aberdeen on this American commission, in charge of this tank in 1919. And, why not, some photos . . . . . !

This tank is a gift from French Army to the American Army or just a purchase of the United States ?

http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages1418/Pages-d-Histoire-Artillerie/Artillerie-Speciale-chars-d-assaut/numero-chamond-saumur-sujet_579_1.htm

Good Hunt - Michel

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Michael Taylor


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Excellent research yet again!

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Poniatowski


Major

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Excellent! Thanks for the info. It's a shame the US didn't take better care of what was intrusted to them.

Ron

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Poniatowski
James H


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Don't know if this adds anything, but, according to Steve Zaloga, the surviving St. Chamond is Fleur d'Amour. He inspected it very closely while it was at Aberdeen.

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Tanker


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Bonjour James,

Fleur d'Amour ! It's a very interesting information.

Do you know the place of "fleur d'Amour" on the tank and if Steve Zaloga done a photo ?  The name was on both sides, or only on one side ?

Michel

-- Edited by Tanker on Thursday 27th of August 2009 02:15:20 PM

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James H


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I'd forgotten I had these. SZ doesn't say whether he checked the authenticity, but this is the Tank as it appeared in the 1980s. The scan of the l/h side isn't very clear, but the name is on both sides.

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Tanker


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Thank you James,
I only know the photos with the tank painted in grey. It's probably good.
It's also possible to see the serial number on the rear door. Impossible to read it on this photo.
Perhaps Aberdeen's museum is in possession of good oldest photos.

Thanks again - Michel

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James H


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De rien.

I don't know where to contact Mr. Zaloga, but he says he gave the Tank a very close inspection, even crawling underneath it. If you can get in touch with him he might be able to provide more info.

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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
James H


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It's possible that the last 4 digits of the number are 2115. I can't make out the rest.

Don't know if that makes sense.

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Steve Zaloga


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James:
Sorry to be late joining this conversation, but I don't visit this site as often as I should.

The number painted on the St. Chamond when it was at APG was not a French number, but the FMCV code (FMCV219= Foreign Materiel Collection-Vehicle-219) which is the way that the Ordnance Museum catalogs its holdings. This is then linked to the "property jacket" which contains the data on the tank. I haven't looked at the St. Chamond protperty jacket, and since it has been de-accessioned, it may not be in the Ordnance Museum library any more.

Regarding the paint scheme on the APG vehicle, it has been painted in a blue-grey color at least since the 1950s which gradually faded. When I first heavily photographed it in 1973, the Fleur d"Amour marking was in white, later repainted in black. The museum used to be very careful to copy some original details such as markings so that may be a careful tracing of the original. I doubt the blue grey color. APG under Col. Jarrett used to paint everything French in their idea of "horizon blue".

This is my oldest color photo of it, dating back to Jarrett's collection from the 1950s. (assuming I can figure out how to post images here)APG St. Chamond

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Tanker


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Bonjour,

Thank you very much for this answer and wery happy to read you again (before it was with FMLM about other tanks . . . ).

I agree you about "Fleur d'Amour", and I hope that some Americans done beautiful black & white photos before 1950.

I have try to contact Aberdeen's museum and received, for instance, no answer.
I think it will funny to put this tank with good colors, number and nickname.
I try now to found names of the crew . . . . . .

Bonne journée - Michel

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Steve Zaloga


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Michel:
The Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen has a very small staff, and few of them are historians. I am not surprised that you never received an answer. Also, their archive is very small and they have very few records about their tanks. When G.B. Jarrett left as curator, he took his files with him. They were broken up, with some at APG, but many at the US Army Military History Institute at Carlisle Barracks, PA.

This is a photo of the St. Chamond when the collection was still inside in the late 1940s and early 1950s. You can see it has the name on it.

APG St. Chamond

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Tanker


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Bonsoir, and thank you so much !

It's a first very good answer.

On this photo, it's possible to see than "Fleur d'Amour is write shorter than on the other photo.
The name was probably paint on the both side (and perhaps on rear right like on "Rêve de valse" (an other AS 42 St Chamond).

For AS 42, the tank number was in front under the machine-gun poisition, and on the rear left.
As, Group number and number of the tank in the battery were on the right door and left at the same level.

These informations will be on future other good photos . . . . .

Michel

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