Landships II

I think this one has a different gun?

Bonjour,

In 1940, probably two St Chamond were in "pot de fleur" at Satory Infantry and Tank School and (perhaps) in Bourges.

Like German's Mark tanks of Reims (La Pompelle sector)  and  all the Mark's tanks given by British Army, and found by the German Army in some French villages (Montdidier, Lassigny, Suippes, Ypres, Epehy, Poëlcapelle . . . ), these tanks were sent in Germany and destroyed . . . 

The 150 first St Chamond were with flat roof and Saint Chamond 75 mm gun. All the gambrel roof's models were with 75 mm modèle 1897.
I don't why this Gambrel roof model were armed with this gun . . . .

Michel

Bonjour James,

Yes, Satory is just near Versailles

The Saint Chamond was not used after the war. It was, perhaps a damaged tank rebuilt to be used like monument. The 75 mm M 97 was already used, and probably no more the other gun. . . . .

I am not sure for Bourges and the photos taken in Satory was in front a three stages building. Other problem painting are the same on the "two" tanks.

I don't remember where I have found information about Bourges. Perhaps it was two St Chamond in Satory military school on two different places.

Michel

Bonjour James,

During a meeting in St Chamond Factory (January 18 th, 1917) was decided the choice of roof and gun model for Saint Chamond program. (SHD Box n° 16N2132)  
were present in this meeting :
            - For Saint Chamond Society :
                         - Lt Colonel Rimailho,
                         - Capitaine Roy,
                         - Monsieur Courmet,
                         - lieutenant Dutilh.
            - For the Army :
                         - Deputé de Gouyon, (Lieutenant  from Groupe AS 2 in Champlieu).
                         - Commandant Boissin (Section Technique du Génie),
                         - Capitaine Liesse (Services Techniques Automobiles)  
                         - Lieutenant Vignes (Services Techniques Automobiles) 
                         - S-Lt Fouché (Services Techniques Automobiles).
   
  They decided to put on the next tanks built :
 From St Chamond n° 151 to 210, 75 mm Schneider Model 1912.
        This gun look like 75 mm St Chamond TR (monted on the flat roof model. This Schneider 75 mm gun was never used. General Mourret decided to put the standard 75 mm model 1897 on all the new model of Saint Chamond (from n° 211 to n° 399)

Il you look on photo Ecpa-D n° SPA N 2693 (it is the St Chamond M3 number 62612 from AS 34 Group) you can see a 75 mm model 1897. This tank is the number's factory 212.

For recognition, I use, to call the three St Chamond models : M1, M2, M3.
          - M1 for the flat roof model
          - M2 for the sloping roof model without pilot and gunner's cupolas,
          - M3 for the sloping roof model with the new pilot's cupola.

The St Chamond M3 "veni, vidi, vici" is the number 62580 from Group AS 35 (factory's number 180. . . ).
It was one of the 60 tanks (from number 151 to 210) planned to receive the 75 mm Schneider gun. But the first Saint Chamond produced were the recovery models (48 tanks), and probably Saint Chamond have enough 75 mm TR Saint Chamond for a lot of tanks after n° 151.

I have not found photo from St Chamond M2 or M3 with the 75 mm Schneider M12. and , for instance, any other document speaking ot this gun for the Saint Chamond. 
The Satory's Saint Chamond M3 is probably one of these tanks.

About the last model of cuppola put on sloping roof models, it's very difficult to say if all the tanks were modified before fights from June to August.

Always many questions . . . . and not enough answers !

Michel



 



    

Bonjour James,

Of course, the 75 mm Schneider modèle 1912, used by the French Cavalry, was different.

But it looks like 75 mm TR St Chamond. On the Schneider gun, the barrel is stuck against the carriage. (like also on the 75 mm Schneider modèle 1914).

These two Schneider gun (M 12 and M 14) was exported Schneider before the war, and also bought by the French Army for cavalry. This gun was not so heavy than 75 mm modèle 1897.

On St Chamond gun there is a space between barrel and carriage (frein de recul et berceau de pointage), not on the Schneider gun.

The gun on St Chamond M3 n° 62580 "veni, vidi, vici" is a 75 TR St Chamond and not a 75 mm Schneider modèle 1912.

Michel