Landships II

Bonsoir Steve,

But no tactical number to found the Group . . . !
It's interesting to see that the infantry call panel is no more on the tank in Saumur's museum.
The panel is perhaps still somewhere in Aberdeen !

Thank you for the photo - Michel

Michel:
Sadly, I do not think that APG still has any of the missing Schneidr parts; maybe stolen. I live very near to APG and have visited the museum many times including the restoration areas. I don't think there is a collection of "missing bits".

More happily, here is something from a lesser known NARA collection of World War I German photos. The caption says one of the tanks from the combat debut on Chemin-des-Dames in April 1917.

Bonjour,

I also don('t think it. It was just a joke !

The first photo is the Scheneider M1 n° 61238 from Lieutenant Poupel. It was the first tank of second Battery from Groupe AS 2. (As de Coeur 1)
There is, at least, eight German and one French photos of this destroyed tank.
This Schneider, from Groupement Bossut, was destroyed, East of Juvincourt on April 16th, 1918, between third and fourth German front line.

The second photo is the Schneider M1 n° 61216 (AsT3) from Sous-Lieutenant Pierre Desbruères.
It was the third tank of third Battery from Groupe AS 2 . The AS 2 Group (first commander Major Louis Bossut) was the only one Group with :
                  As de treffle for third Battery
                  As de Carreau for fourth Battery
Four men were killed :
                  S/lt Pierre Debruères,
                  Maréchal des Logis rené Offrion,
                  Canonnier Louis Bergès,
                  Canonnier Henri Lardic,
The two other men were only wounded.
This Schneider was destroyed on 49° 26' 38" North and 3° 54' 38" East of Juvincourt.
I have never found (in very good quality) the two photos with thes four men killed and burnt. On the usual postcard, done by the German, it was impossible to recognize them. Perhaps on a very quality.

Michel

Here is the other one

Michel:
The NARA German WWI collection is mostly original photos, but there are some postcards included. Unfortunately, the Schneider photos are not originals. So anyway, here are some more out of the Signal Corps collection of Schneiders supporting AEF Units. This one is identified as Breteuil, 18 May 18 in training with 26th Infantry, 2nd Brigade.

Bonjour Steve,

All is good on this two photos ! The sector is well near Breteuil, but it is Hardivillers, and more exactly the "Ferme du Bois planté" (also write "Bois plantis" on some maps).
See from United States is not far away !

This farm (49° 37' 66" North - 2° 13' 41" East), who is now destroyed, was North of Hardivillers and 4,8 km West from Breteuil

This Schneider's Groupement. (Groupement n° I) received all French sector units for 2 days training course with tanks.
The SRR (Section de Ravitaillement et Réparation) from Grpt I was also in Hardivillers.

This farm was the tank training center for the Big Red One, before Cantigny's attack.

If most of the photos were done by the SPA (Section Photographique de l'Armée), some of there are from Army Signal Corps.
 
You can found this photos in France (Fort d'Ivry - Ecpa-D) and also in British IWM collection and in the American Army Signal Corps collections.

During these exercices were used Schneider from Groups AS 2, AS 5 and AS 4.
The Schneider, in the wood, is from Groupe AS 5. It is the number 61396. This tank was a reserve tank from the " Section d'Echelon", who don't fight in Cantigny.

There is some other photos of the same tank in the 3 national collections (FR - US - UK). Sometimes also in the German Bundesarchiv . . .

For exemple :
        - French original photo from Ecpa-D is the n° SPA Y 2991,
        - American copy is the Army Signal corps n° 013112,
        - British Imperial War Museum is n° Q 56412.
Are the same photo of this tank.

It's interesting to see that the framing from British or American photos is, sometimes, different. The whole photo is in the French original collection. But some original French negative are now disappered and it's good to found it in Great Britain or in the Unites States . . . .

About French military photos of First World War, it's also possible to found these photo's collection in Paris at the BDIC (in the Invalides).

Michel

-- Edited by Tanker on Wednesday 7th of October 2009 12:20:02 PM

We have an original WW1 photograph of this tank taken from the what appears to be the same spot. The only changes would be that our photo shows the dead men laying about the tank,(in and around the track area) so was most likely taken earlier? Our great uncle, Anton Nique, was the regimental photographer(German Army) He was in 10/217 Reg. On the back of the photo is scribed "Tank bei Juvicourt" We have another photograph of what looks like the same Schneider tank from another angle. Once I figure out how to attach the photo we have I will get it up. Question: Could the photo posted on the forum here be part of a group of photos he may have taken? The one we have almost appears as though it was taken from the exact same position as the one shown on the forum, yet at a different time.