Landships II

Ivan · Field Marshal

Mk V in Lugansk again as new! (Photo-reportage)

Poniatowski · Major

Thanks for sharing Ivan! Nice to see the old vehicles so carefully repaired and displayed again. I noticed a lot of discussion about markings and I agree that putting them back to their British 'origins' is probably the best solution at this time, perhaps in the future later markings could be applied.
Did I read correctly that they will be displayed indoors rather than in the weather again?

Cheers!

Ron

Ivan · Field Marshal

The restored tanks in Lugansk already have returned there where they stood - on the area.�Now historian-people wish to raise money for museum construction, and to collect there also other tanks. But it is difficult - in Ukraine of money is not present, while "citron democrat" Freddi Kruger confuse

�(Youschenko) in power. Position can after elections in January will change, then Russia will help.

All English tanks in Russia still for a long time had English marks (numbers onboard), even in Red army are photos of tanks with English numbers in the end of 20 years.

Gwyn Evans · Legend

It is interesting to note that the two tanks can now be identified as 9186 and 9344, and that therefore although they both appear as (in my terminology) Mark V RH Composites (because the Male sponson is on the right hand or starboard side) one is a former Male and one a former Female. As such they have different ammunition stowage arrangements, which it is possible to tell from a close examination of the photos. These also reveal how awkward it must have been to fight - some of the 6 pdr ammunition stowage in 9186 is on the opposite side of the hull to the gun. It is a pity that relatively few photos of the interior of 9344 have been posted. I hope that more will follow.

Incidentally, before going to Russia 9344 served with both 9th and 10th Battalion in France in 1918.

Gwyn

-- Edited by Gwyn Evans on Saturday 24th of October 2009 12:09:39 PM

Ivan · Field Marshal

Gwyn Evans wrote:

It is interesting to note that the two tanks can now be identified as 9186 and 9344, and that therefore although they both appear as (in my terminology) Mark V RH Composites (because the Male sponson is on the right hand or starboard side) one is a former Male and one a former Female. As such they have different ammunition stowage arrangements, which it is possible to tell from a close examination of the photos. These also reveal how awkward it must have been to fight - some of the 6 pdr ammunition stowage in 9186 is on the opposite side of the hull to the gun. It is a pity that relatively few photos of the interior of 9344 have been posted. I hope that more will follow.

Incidentally, before going to Russia 9344 served with both 9th and 10th Battalion in France in 1918.

Gwyn

-- Edited by Gwyn Evans on Saturday 24th of October 2009 12:09:39 PM

Gwyn,
Thanks for the information! Discussion of tanks in Lugansk here (in Russian), but there is a lot of links, probably will new:
http://voenforum.ru/index.php?showtopic=1711
I now there and this�link to "voenforum".

Photo of Mk V No 9186 "Derzkij", South-Russia, Port of Noworossijsk, 1919. Russian and British oficers.

Ivan (Stanislaus)

�

-- Edited by Ivan on Saturday 24th of October 2009 03:12:01 PM

-- Edited by Ivan on Saturday 24th of October 2009 03:13:49 PM

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Thanks. Some of the links don't seem to work for me because I need a password for this forum, but joining a Russian language forum is beyond my keyboard's ability (and also mine...).

Gwyn

Ivan · Field Marshal

Links on the pictures in Russia serach:

http://fotki.yandex.ru/search.xml?type=image&text=%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%20%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA&how=rating

http://images.yandex.ru/yandsearch?text=%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%20%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA

�
http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&source=hp&q=%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%20%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Boris · Corporal

English Tank Mark V was designed and manufactured in October 1917 by Metropolitan Carriage and Waggon Company LTD (Birmingham). There is this plant now?

-- Edited by Boris on Saturday 24th of October 2009 07:32:28 PM

Boris · Corporal

For Gwyn Evans:
"but joining a Russian language forum is beyond my keyboard's ability (and also mine...)"
http://www.translate.google.com/#
"Cope" and "Paste"

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Ivan and Boris - thank you both very much.

Gwyn

Boris · Corporal

Gwyn Evans wrote:
Incidentally, before going to Russia 9344 served with both 9th and 10th Battalion in France in 1918.

What documents are available on 9344?

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Not alot. There's a summary of Battle History Sheets for 9th Battalion for the actions of 23 July 1918 at The National Archives in London. Another researcher has identified 9344 as J28 (i.e. a 10th Battalion tank), but I've not confirmed that finding yet.

Gwyn

Boris · Corporal

Gwyn - thank you both very much.
Boris.

Boris · Corporal

Gwyn - thank you very much.
Boris.

CharlieC · Legend

Boris wrote:

English Tank Mark V was designed and manufactured in October 1917 by Metropolitan Carriage and Waggon Company LTD (Birmingham). There is this plant now?

-- Edited by Boris on Saturday 24th of October 2009 07:32:28 PM

The primary business of Metropolitan Carriage and Wagon was building railway carraiages. Building tanks in WW1 was obviously war work. There is a history of the company here:

http://metcam.co.uk.nstempintl.com/history.htm

The factory went through a number of ownership changes after WW2 and finally closed in 2005. The factory still exists though at Washwood Heath, Birmingham (it's on Google Maps - satellite view)

Regards,

Charlie

�

Gwyn Evans · Legend

I believe the tanks were built at the Saltley works mentioned in the history. I don't know the area - is this the same place as Washwood Heath?

Gwyn

CharlieC · Legend

They are fairly close - about 3 km apart but not the same location. The Saltley works closed in 1962. The Washwood Heath site is roughly North East of Saltley.

Regards,

Charlie

Boris · Corporal

The Metropolitan Cammell Carriage and Wagon (MCCW) was a Birmingham, England based manufacturer of railway carriages and wagons, based in Saltley and subsequently Washwood Heath.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Metro_Cammell

Boris

Boris · Corporal

Metropolitan were contracted as a builder of the new tanks for the British Army during the First World War. They built all 400 of the Mark V tank and 700 improved Mark V* tanks. These were the most developed designs to see service in the war.

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

Ivan wrote:

http://community.livejournal.com/ww_tank_ru/41189.html
http://community.livejournal.com/ww_tank_ru/49454.html#cutid1
http://community.livejournal.com/shushpanzer_ru/672478.html
http://community.livejournal.com/shushpanzer_ru/734797.html

Could somebody who speaks Russian please ask very nicely if some of the photos in these articles can be copied and reproduced on Landships2 in a new article?

Or maybe the authors could send us a copy of the article in English�to use on the new Landships site? (If we ask very, very nicely!)

Also, do any of the contributors to this thread have any objection to any of their material being used in a new article about the Mark V on Landships2?

-- Edited by philthydirtyanimal on Friday 7th of May 2010 07:47:00 PM

Gwyn Evans · Legend

philthydirtyanimal wrote:

�
Also, do any of the contributors to this thread have any objection to any of their material being used in a new article about the Mark V on Landships2?
�

I have no objection, but I would still like more photos of the interior of 9344 so if you could ask very, very nicely about that too please biggrin

.

I recently had an article called "A Closer Look at Composites"�published in 'The Dragon', the South Wales MAFVA magazine. �It was supplied to the editor in a bit of a rush as they had a gap to fill and so it needs a bit of polishing, but it expands on some of the points I make about Composites in this and other threads.

Gwyn

�

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

That's great, Gwyn, thanks.

Articles appearing in 'The Dragon' aren't always reproduced in 'Tankette' though, so I (and others) may miss out on reading your article. By any chance, would you like it to appear as a new article on Landships2?

Gwyn Evans · Legend

OK but will want to edit/update it before sending it to you.

Gwyn

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

And probably The Dragon should get 'the scoop', wouldn't seem right otherwise.

CharlieC · Legend

�

Could be stress corrosion cracking - residual stresses in the steel lead to foci for corrosion which can cause catastrophic failure.

The normal procedure to avoid this is to anneal the steel after forming or working but this isn't possible with face hardened armour plate.

The scalloped cracking above the rivet lines suggests a process associated with stresses in the armour plate.

Regards,

Charlie

-- Edited by CharlieC on Sunday 14th of April 2013 03:27:51 AM

Fray Bentos · Corporal

An excellent thread with so many amazing photographs, have just found this image �of the tank at Lugansk around 2005:-

�

Fray Bentos · Corporal

In this picture, do you think the cracks are due to metal fatigue, or action damage (could it be the prolonged exposure to severe cold)?

�

Ironsides · Legend

I think it may have something to do with stresses in the steel possibly caused by the heat treatment methods used the armour seems brittle even in contemporary pics, the tanks after all�were tools which were never meant to last that long... theres an awfull lot of that kind of damage visible it couldnt all be battle damage although shock, even shock from the lack of suspension could be the cause...

�

Cheers smile

Pzkpfw-e · Commander in Chief

Highly likely to be metal fatigue. Bovington no longer drive their original WW1 tanks due to fatigue cracking.