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Post Info TOPIC: Gruson Fahrpanzer patent 1887


Legend

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Gruson Fahrpanzer patent 1887
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Gruson Fahrpanzer patent 1887......

Cheerssmile

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367617__GRUSON.pdf (244.3 kb)
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Lieutenant-Colonel

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A reasonable number of these must have been made as a number of the Balkan states had them & used them. What little I have found suggests use as a mobile pillbox. In fact they seem to have more use in "peace" than war being noted as an invaluble aid to frontier & border gaurd units.

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Legend

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Hi Brennan, the Fahrpanzer was widely used in WW1, the curious thing is the patent details use in the field in temporary fortifications,�and these were of course used in that way on the western front..... perhaps gruson foresaw the development of trench warfare.....

Cheerssmile

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Hero

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Gruson made a living selling fortification emplacements.�� The turrets of Przemysl, for example, were Gruson contract works.��� The Fahrpanzer was intended as a close defense system within the complex.� Held under cover,��'till a ground assault was�eminent,��they were designed to be run out to prepared positions on light rail networks.

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Legend

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Hi 28juni14, sure a version of the Fahrpanzer was used as you say, Untill�I read this�Patent�I was under the impression that this was its only�intended usewink.... However in the patent�Gruson specifically says these are intended "for use in the construction of�temporary fortifications or trenches" and provides an illustration of the idea, he does mention reinforcing� the position with "masonry or other means"�if its "intended to be of a more permanent character"....�
Maybe this patent predates the idea to use them in permanent fortresses as point defence, however it is a very simple version and lacks the sofistication of the fortress Fahrpanzer, indeed Gruson makes a virtue of its simple construction...
The curious thing is that in the end the fortress Fahrpanzers were used more or less as originally�envisaged by this patent... ie as hardpoints in a temporary field defence....



Cheerssmile

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"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazggimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

 



Commander in Chief

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Hi all,

Brussels has one. I tried their site but there's something technically not ok today. A picture can be seen at http://www.forumeerstewereldoorlog.nl/wiki/index.php/gruson 5.3cm L/24 Fahrpanzer.

Regards, Kieffer

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Lieutenant-Colonel

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This would partly fit with what I gather is the most frequent use of them as supporting border crossing / frontier post positions or paramilitary / rebellion suppression actions by the Balkan states that had them. Here the issue appears to have been mobility & ease / speed�of initial implacement when compared with the costs & time of (even light) permanent constructions. The clear implication is that these units would then be "recycled" to another problem point.

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Commander in Chief

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I was last year in Brussels. I took these pictures below. Please take my apologies for the bad quality. I took them with the camera of my mobile phone.

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Legend

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There's a long discussion about Fahrpanzers here, with links to other good stuff:

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=63528&p=3&topicID=14736561

IIRC there were two types. Romania bought over 300. Christy Campbell makes�a somewhat ill-considered reference to them in Band of Brigands:

"The Romanians had built a strange system in the 1900s on the designs of a Prussian army engineer, the 'Sereth Line' in Moldavia which featured moving armoured cupolas on railway tracks. They were described in the contemporary literature as 'mobile forts'. A self-propelled land fighting machine was at the mad inventor stage."



-- Edited by James H on Tuesday 19th of January 2010 01:12:05 PM

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