Landships II

Albert · Brigadier

RE: The Patriot Files

PDA · Legend

Thank you, Albert.

To be honest, I have given up trying to get patriot files to come clean. He has no 'honour' to appeal to.

I think you have done more good by exposing him as a�loser on the Polish forum you mention. Please keep at it. Are there other forums, in Polish, you use?

Maybe we should all do that; spread the word in as many forums as possible.

Albert · Brigadier

Yes, I do use other Polish forums although it is the first time I found a link to Patriot Files. But every time it happens, I will do the same - inform that these articles are stolen and that Landships is a great site

By the way, PDA - do you use two profiles since yesterday: "philthydirtyanimal" and "PDA"?

-- Edited by Albert on Wednesday 12th of May 2010 02:46:02 PM

PDA · Legend

Yes, I'm the same person. I'm 'phasing out' philthydirtyanimal because it has acquired the 'rank' of 'hero'. Which I�think is�embarrassing.

CharlieC · Legend

We've only just started with the process of getting rid of the plagiarised material on Patriotfiles - all we need is an author to send a takedown e-mail to David. If I had authored anything on Landships I would have done it already. If he ignores the takedown then it can be escalated to the hosting company - the hosts cannot ignore complaints under DMCA.

Regards,

Charlie

Roger Todd · Legend

Bloody hell, this is outrageous!

I see he's ripped-off my Flying Elephant article, which I'm pretty aggrieved about seeing as I did a LOT of original research in archives and a LOT of work on the drawings:

http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109684&highlight=flying+elephant

Oh, and quelle bleeding surprise, I wonder where he got the Macfie article from?
http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109710&highlight=macfie

Another article for which I did original archival research and slaved over numerous drawings.

And they date from last summer, nearly a year ago!

What a thieving non-attributing *&%$~!!!

CharlieC · Legend

Use the rage...

Your articles on the Flying Elephant are correctly attributed on the Landships site so there's no chance of ambiguity about authorship (from landships):

Britains Shellproof Tank:Part 1 - From Flotilla Leader to Battletank by Roger Todd
Britains Shellproof Tank:Part 2 - Birth & Death of the Flying Elephant by Roger 
            Todd & Eugene Sautin

Use the template at - http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/stock-letters/ to tell him to 
remove your articles. The guy at Patriotfiles seems to be pretty dumb - he doesn't
realise that DMCA is not something to ignore. If he doesn't reply or comply within a
few days document it here - then we can take it to his ISP.

Regards,

Charlie

Later: Was converting the Japanese 28cm howitzer article for Landships II - noted the 
author was Roger - guess what - the article is copied on Patriotfiles as Obice 280K - 
posted 7/7/2009 - the heading has been removed, of course.

Britains Shellproof Tank:
Part 1 - From Flotilla Leader to Battletank

-- Edited by CharlieC on Thursday 13th of May 2010 02:07:46 AM

-- Edited by CharlieC on Thursday 13th of May 2010 10:50:11 AM

PDA · Legend

Takedown notice issued. See attached, and the date of this post,�as proof.

28juni14 · Hero

Excellent ,� UncleanCreature !�� I applaud your deligence !�� I suspect this fellow�did not expect a follow-through of your previous complaint.

Albert · Brigadier

Yeah, great job, PDA

PDA · Legend

I am not 100% certain, but it appears to me that that particular article is unavailable on patriot files. Perhaps it has been removed. Could a few people check please?

The webmaster (David Bailey) also believes that exercising one's rights and protesting against theft, is spamming. I have been banned for life; see attached, and the time and date of this post for proof. That is going to make it difficult, but not impossible,�to contact him to remove all the other articles he has stolen.

I am also aware that at least one other author has issued a takedown notice, and, to my knowledge, that has not been complied with.

@28juni14 and Albert. Thank you. It is a matter of principle. Peter is not in a position to defend himself and he put a lot of effort into making this site.�I feel very strongly that a friend of mine has been wronged.

-- Edited by PDA on Sunday 16th of May 2010 03:41:32 PM

Albert · Brigadier

Looks like your article has indeed been removed

But many other are still there...

And do you know anything about Peter? Is he all right?

PDA · Legend

After seeing that I had been banned, I sent this email to David Bailey:

"Dear Webmaster,
�I see you have banned me, citing the excuse 'spamming'. I do not consider issuing you with a takedown notice as spamming, but I suppose that as webmaster you can make up your own definitions. However, your ban will make it difficult for me to issue you with further takedown notices for the other articles you have stolen. Do you propose any resolution of this issue, or shall I take the matter up with your site's hosts?"

And have�received the following reply:

"You can take it up with whomever you like. The material was in the public domain as you freely admitted early in the ridiculous post concerning the subject on your forum. Maybe I should take the matter of your slanderous speech up with your ISP. You also have a very lose definition of plagiarism. Non of the articles in question are attributed to me in any way. In fact many of them, including the one you posted to today are full of attributions to the people who wrote them or took the pictures. You have a case or hurt, most likely from your leader leaving his site. I suggest you relax your stance as the position you have taken has backed you into a wall rather then helping matters. As I said from the beginning, if you feel the articles need more attribution you are free to add it to them. I will not however allow you to carry your slanderous speech over to my forums. Either attribute the articles in a manner respectful to all involved or continue on your current untenable path. Up to you."

Here's�The Canadian Bar Association's definition of slander: "Slander is the type of defamation with no permanent record. Normally it's a spoken statement." So I believe David Bailey means 'libel'. Here's The Canadian Bar Association's definition of�libel: "Libel is the type of defamation with a permanent record, like a newspaper, a letter, a website posting, an email..." However, it is not slander or libel if the statement(s) are true. So here's dictionary.reference.com's definition of plagiarism: "1, the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work. 2, something used and represented in this manner." Everyone has, I am�certain, noted that the name at the top of every copied article is David (who is the administrator and webmaster at Patriot files), and that he has removed�authors names from title lines,�compare these two examples:�
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/new_pages/belgian_unifs_ww1.htm
and
http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434331

this�seems to fit definition '1'; "representation of them as one's own original work".� Further, library.albany.edu states, "Plagiarism is theft...". Therefore anybody engaging in such an act is a thief. As plagiarism has been proven, and plagiarism is theft, then saying that David Bailey is a thief is not libel (or slander, David) because it is the truth.

Has David had the opportunity to attribute the articles? Yes, he has. He could have not removed the authors names for a start, but he has also been contacted by a few of us here. Although we shouldn't have to, has anyone of us tried to attribute the articles? Yes. And the attributions were removed and the person posting them was banned for spamming. Is David aware that people think he is the author of the articles? Yes he is, see this article: http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109958�where�'Jack' (posting as 'mazungumagic') states: "Obviously you have done some research to write up the commencing article - did you happen to come across any..." and, "what I took to be an oral interview with the fellow you mentioned...". This is clear that 'Jack' believes David is the author of the work, and David does nothing to dispel this false assumption. There are other examples on the site.

In David's email to me he says, "if you feel the articles need more attribution you are free to add it to them" and yet I am banned, and the date the ban will be lifted? "Never." So, his permission for me to do his work for him seems rather less than genuine.

Finally, I am at a loss in figuring out why David expects anyone to respect him and his site, when he showed none of the authors of the articles he stole any respect. If he had just mentioned�Landships as�the source for his articles, this would all have been a non-event.

�

-- Edited by PDA on Sunday 16th of May 2010 05:57:23 PM

Albert · Brigadier

PDA, both links to Patriot Files from your last post in this thread don't work, so maybe David began to delete stolen articles? However still there is lots of them. In "World War I" section there is 350 threads at the moment, although not all of them are stolen from Landships (the rest probably from other sites...). We'll see if number of articles in "World War I" is going to decrease - that would mean David does delete stolen articles from Landships.
And one more thing - David's reply to your message is pathetic.

-- Edited by Albert on Sunday 16th of May 2010 09:16:09 PM

Ironsides · Legend

"David's reply to your message is pathetic"

That sums it up nicely......

Cheers wink

PDA · Legend

Tee hee! Yes I noticed that he had deleted the articles I mentioned, and some others. As he states in his email, he reads this forum.

It is interesting that he would rather remove the articles than say where they came from.

There are still many more articles for him to attribute or remove.

If the authors of those articles do not want to contact David, feel free to give me�power of�proxy, and I will issue takedown notices on your behalf.

But the whole thing is a shame, really. He reads this forum, so he must know that it is a polite and friendly place. Why didn't he just ask? Or, failing that, why not just say where he got the articles?� What a shame; he could have been a friend.

Ironsides · Legend

Hi PDA
Well its Internet Etiquette to ask first before using�information or pictures films etc from a website, ive underlined it because its not normally the case that anyone would allow you to copy entire sections of a website to post on your own site...�the normal response to this is a link to the Website in question, page or� photo etc.... the whole set of landships pages posted on The Patriot Files could have been neatly done with a single link and one post.....
And just in case David cant find the site anymore heres what he should replace the filched pages with.... http://www.landships.freeservers.com/

Its easy David�just a simple cut and paste.....

Cheers smile

-- Edited by Ironsides on Sunday 16th of May 2010 10:04:15 PM

James H · Legend

I think I'm beginning to get a perspective. Patriotfiles.com claims to have almost 12,000 members, but only a handful have ever posted anything. Many of the memberships have been inactive for years, and the few regular contributors are responsible for the overwhelming majority of posts, some running into the thousands. David Bailey has made over 46,000 posts, yet there is page after page of supposed members who have never made a post. One cannot help but wonder how many are genuine. The average age of the regular contributors seems to be in the 60+ range. Quite a few are Vietnam vets whose profiles would indicate that they are still traumatised by either their own experiences or America's unimaginable defeat.

The site actually makes "awards", for a) donating money, b) helping to run the site, and c) no reason. Apart from military history, the site includes anti-Democrat articles and a smattering of conspiracy theories, so no surprise there. And a great many of the contributors are unable to resist mentioning God, Jesus Christ, etc. I think that helps to build up the picture.

In short, I think this site is situated on the border between Looneyland and Sadovia. Mr. Bailey is a master of Doublethink - braying about hono(u)r, valo(u)r, and the Constitution whilst practising dishonesty, cowardice, and censorship. It is a pity that Landships's reputation is suffering because of the peculiar and dishonest behaviour of one man.

Incidentally, libel and slander are generally lumped together nowadays under the heading of "defamation". In my profession one is required to have an extensive knowledge of this law. The principal defence against defamation is that a statement is true. In the case of Mr. Bailey, the allegation that he has plagiarised Landships is incontestably true, as are the statements I make above. A secondary defence is "fair comment". Even if the words damage a person in the eyes of a section of society or the community, they are not defamatory unless they amount to "a disparagement of the reputation in the eyes of right-thinking people generally."

Before our correspondence ceased, Mr. Bailey suggested that I also did not understand the word plagiarise. "To appropriate ideas, passages, etc from another work or author." That sounds about right.

Paul Bonnett · Hero

PDA you should revert to your original profile as I think to many of us you will remain a HERO. Thank You
Paul

PDA · Legend

Paul, thanks for the compliment, really. But I am really, really uncomfortable with that noun. (Is it a noun?) I know some real heroes (doctors, firefighters, paramedics), I'm sure we all do, and writing in a forum is just not that dramatic. The ranks are good, and even amusing, up until 'hero' or 'legend', then they just make me cringe!

And there are still a lot of Landships articles posted up on patriot files. I didn't get anywhere (or if I did, it was a team effort); he's just up to more tricks. Its a shame.

-- Edited by PDA on Monday 17th of May 2010 03:22:28 AM

James H · Legend

I see.

PDA · Legend

Thank you to all of you who have messaged me with your power of proxy. That means there are a substantial number of articles for which I can now legitimately issue a takedown notice as your proxy.

Which is just as well, because we can see that David Bailey has removed all the threads linked to in this post, but he has left up a substantial number of other stolen articles. For example, all of the articles by Robert; compare these two:
http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110076
and
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/new_pages/liege-fort_rr.htm

and these two:
http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110075
and
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/new_pages/forts_in_ww1_rr.htm

These are interesting examples, because it gives the lie to his claim of 'fair use'. One of the 4 tests of fair use is the amount of content copied. In all the articles that David Bailey has copied, the amount of copied material�is all of it except the authors names. It appears he would fail the 'amount test' if he tries to use the fair use defense.

In any case, it still doesn't explain why he removed the names, and did not attribute the articles. It doesn't explain why he feels that we should post the attributions as additions to his postings, and when we do he bans us for 'spamming'. Or how he expects us to add the attributions after he has banned us. It doesn't explain why he says he had noble intentions of saving the Landships site (before it was in jeopardy) but then gives no reference to it. He certainly seems a queer duck; I'm baffled.

James H · Legend

At last, some good news.

The Patriot Award

"This Award is given by Patriotfiles.com to sites that produce outstanding military and patriotic content. To apply for this award please send an email describing your site and listing your web site address to:
The Patriot Award

Landships isn't mentioned in the list of previous winners. I reckon we all qualify for this valuable award. So get that email off today! And then, er . . .

-- Edited by James H on Monday 17th of May 2010 07:15:39 PM

PDA · Legend

I think we should give him an award for some of the best WW1 content to be found on the net.

Hughbearson · General

I don't know why David. B isn't using his old profile pic anymore...

Anzac1915 · Sergeant

Hi All,

Just received this email today

Hi,

The Patriot Files located at http://www.patriotfiles.com has begun to archive military websites. This project has been undertaken due to the high number of lost military websites with the closing of several large free hosting services. If you have a military website that you would like to have archived or if you know of one that should be archived before it is lost please contact David at webmaster@patriotfiles.com to arrange to have the site archived. Please pass this along to other military website webmasters and supporters.

�

About The Patriot Files

�

The Patriot Files is a founding member of the Library of Congress Veterans History Project and is a private and donation funded add free website. The Patriot Files has been online for close to 10 years and was built to preserve military history.

�

David

Webmaster

http://www.patriotfiles.com

Thought some of you might be interested as to where PF may be heading to.

Cheers
Greg

Albert · Brigadier

Fine, but it doesn't mean he can take (rather steal) articles without asking! What he does now resembles a situation when a criminal stops commiting crimes and begins a legal business, this doesn't mean he is not a criminal ;)

PDA · Legend

I like your analogy, Albert. Let's take it a little further; let's imagine I stole The Scream by Edvard Munch, and then when I was caught by the police and was standing before the Judge in court I said, "Well, your honour, I didn't want anything bad to happen to it. And not only that, but I would like to confess that that is why I stole all these other paintings too." Would the judge be fooled? I'd say that is highly unlikely!

But David Bailey at Patriot files is trying to fool everyone with exactly that story. Using�Albert's analogy we can easily see that�this latest ruse is merely another con. David Bailey at Patriot Files is once again being less-than-truthful.

It is also ironic that when we separately wrote to the Patriot Files to give proper creditation to the articles he has stolen from Landships, he banned us all and called it 'spamming'. Now he is spamming all of us.