Landships II

Date: Aug 21, 2005

Polish A7V!!!!! Question????

Date: Aug 21, 2005

Well, that's a new spin on the old question. What do we know about the manufacture of the Hedi's ? I'd guess that they were armoured in some german factory that had produced some of the original batches of A7V armour.

I'm skeptical as to whether the new Polish state would have had the wherewithal to produce it's own armour to match a gelandewagen chassis on such short notice. The Germans, on the other hand, were already set up to do that for the Hedi's and just needed to make some modifications

Date: Aug 21, 2005

I think to unravel this mystery we have to answer one question at a time,

lets start with this
was there just two hedi's or more?
then What happened to them?

It might be well that there were several and some of them got into the Polish hands

There is also the theory of the French giving the tanks, unlikely since they had no parts for them and they were not running, and they had plenty of St.chamonds and ft-17
But it is still a possibility

Also could there have been the 21 tank never making it from Germany to the front lines and kept hidden?
To answer these questions inquires need to be made to the Polish and German and French archives.

I think its time to unravel this longstanding mystery
I think to unravel this mystery we have to answer one question at a time,

Date: Aug 21, 2005

Tim!

I've been speculating about that option since th beginning.

There simply is no way the Polish got true A7Vs. Every single one built can be accounted for. However, there were heaps of Uberlandwagens, and it seems to make sense that the Polish could have aquired some of them.

I do not think they would have been armored to the same standard as Heidi. I think more likely, they would have had a simple box construction, with open top, to serve as a light cannon carrier or something like that.

Just speculation. But you guys are right, this is definitely one mystery that really needs to be resolved.

---

Date: Aug 21, 2005

Well, I think that the Polish A7V is just a myth, and until SOMETHING, anything (like a photo) surfaces to substantiate it, I will treat it as such. And I agree: with the Poles getting FT-17's free with instructors and spares from France, why bother with the behemoth A7V? The warfare during the war against the Soviets was anyway so fluid that such a break-through tank as the A7V would have made little sense - this in contrast to the much lighter and much more versatile FT-17.

Just my two cents...

/Peter K

Date: Aug 21, 2005

There is no evidence from the Polish side that they operated any A7V or A7V clones. None.

The late Janusz Magnuski was especially interested in this period and combed the archives for info on such vehicles. He found no evidence at all. His conclusion was that some German authors of the 1930s may have mistaken some poor photos of improvised Polish armored cars for A7V or simply invented the story out of whole cloth.

Date: Aug 21, 2005

But what happened to hadi and its mate?
and were there more, Until recently it was thought that only one exhisted and now we know there were at least two?

Date: Aug 22, 2005

Hello,

here as example of the note of Steve Zaloga the photo one improvised polish armored car.

Hedi? No, the polish wheel armored car car "Wozniak Walerus" ("Powstaniec") from May 1921!

Date: Aug 22, 2005

WOW!

Mario, I think you've finally answered the age old question.

When I first saw that I was shocked, i thought it was a new never before seen picture of 'Hedi'!! I was completely convinced for the short time before I read your text.

You can't see the wheels, and it has SUCH a similar shape to the A7V and Hedi, that I think this is concludes the msytery.

What an acomplishment!!! At the very least, this is still the most rational explanation yet.

---

Date: Aug 23, 2005

Well Mario

I belive you have helped us solve this issue, If you look at it, it does look like a A7V. As Mr Zaloga stated

" German authors of the 1930s may have mistaken some poor photos of improvised Polish armored cars for A7V "

So as for me I belive you can mark this one closed.

I still would like to know what happened to all the Uberlandwagens, and the two???? Hedi's

By the way Mario, does the caption say anything about what the "Wozniak Walerus" ("Powstaniec") was built on, Wheels????, Track?????.

All the Best

Tim R.

Date: Aug 24, 2005

Hello,

no tracks (unfortunately), wheels,

Greeting

Mario

Date: Aug 24, 2005

Update:

Hedi (?!) where they remained white nobody. The only proof for two (!)
Hedis hangs 50 centimeters before me and has a size of 16,5x22,5 cm.
For me the most valuable picture of my collection and (so far) singularly
in the world!!!

Greeting

Mario

http://home.arcor.de/doherr/zdwk.htm

Date: Aug 24, 2005

Hello Mario

I thank you for your help, and extra pictures, they will be but to good use, and it is greatly appreciated. Could you possibly give any operational history on this vehicle???

By the way your site is really coming along. Good Luck!!!!!

All the Best

Tim R

SASH155 · Major

"Redleg" again. I take it that the Steve Zaloga who was at one time posting on the site is the author Steven J. Zaloga? Would it that he would return to post on the site; he's great, I love his stuff on modern armor. Would love to see his take on this WW1 stuff. As for the A7V, like him I know of no references or photos of them in Poland, in fact I believe, and in this I could be mistaken, that their use was pretty much restricted to the Western Front, therefore the chances of any in post-war Polish service are slim to nil. The Polish work on Polish Army equipment from 1914-1939 that I have also fails to mention or depict a single A7V.

Tim R · Hero

Hello Wesley

I do belive that was the out come of this discussion, We came to the conclusion that the A7V idea was mistaken, The conclusion was that some one saw the AC posted here and since they sort of resemble the A7V decided that was what it was. I beleive like others ,this thread answers our question. No Polish A7V's

All the best

Tim R

28juni14 · Hero

This is another example of a myth gaining acceptance after appearing in printed form. (The same frustration August cited regarding Russian women fliers in another post here.) I can't recall the Austrian's name who fostered the myth back in the early 30s, but he's been mimicked ever since. (Perhaps one of you can recall his name.) I do know a number of respected people believed it( sadly to include the late Walter Speilberger, among others).

Stoyan · Sergeant

The greatest Polish secret not mystical Polish A7V, and trophy fiat-3000 taken by Russian in war of 1920 (War between the Soviet Russia and Poland).
In Russia, in the literature on history of the tank - there is a history about trophy tank FIAT-3000 taken as a trophy during the ��-Polish war in fights for Grodno.

In 1920 of serial tanks FIAT-3000 simply did not exist. Though it is considered that FIAT-3000 were available at the moment of war for Poland.
Whether Italians could test the tank during war with Russia with the consent of Poland?

SASH155 · Major

Just adding my two you know what's to the discussion. Sorry if it seems I am beating a dead horse (which seems to be already well on its way to being skeletonized).By the way, what about Mr. Zaloga. Did he get cold feet?