Landships II

Thanks, Rectalgia.

I thought it looked pretty close; but then, I'm not so good at telling artillery pieces apart.

So, it's another WW1 model for us!

(Oh, and it is 1/72. And they also make it 1/87)

Charlie, the US Army book is dated 1922 and certainly could include a few post-war innovations though that would be unlikely I think - particularly for France. With the possible exception of the USA I think we're pretty-much looking at WW1 armaments in those pages, indeed the preface makes it plain that the work is addressing design questions raised in the war and "the lessons" of the war, the initial work was done in 1918 and subsequent expansion of the text remains focussed very much on the WW1 equipment.

And yes, the model PDA shows apparently incorporates in part a sliding mount but not quite like the wartime versions described in the book (and those had no recoil/recuperation cylinders as you say). The wartime mounting problems are discussed in the book (under the 305) and it is entirely believable that the French went on to address those problems, once they were over the immediate traumas of the war (and to the extent that the great depression allowed much opportunity).

So, it's looking more like a post WW1 development, isn't it. Almost certainly the Mle 1893/96 gun (but 305mm) but probably on a post-war carriage mount. So, most likely not another WW1 model PDA. But tantalisingly close!

Nice one Charlie, duelling savoury spreads. I confess I was tempted ...

[edit] Ah, I now see the St Chamond mount DID employ recoil cylinders (buffers really) - 2 x about 15 inch, as the American source says. As the book says (p45, concerning the 240mm):

67. Recoil system. This mount, as mentioned above, has top-carriage recoil. Counter recoil is by gravity. The gun is suspended in a heavy cast saddle, which in turn is supported on the rolling gun carriage. This recoils up rails rising toward the rear with an inclination of 4 degrees. These rails are carried on a racer in which the recoil cylinders are installed. These cylinders are two in number and are about 15 inches in diameter. Each is attached inside the front of the racer at a point about 42 inches below the gun by means of a 6-inch pin, about which the cylinder is free to revolve in a vertical plane. Each piston is similarly attached to the gun carriage in such a position that its axis is approximately parallel to the inclined rails. This form of attachment, however, makes the buffer self-aligning and more distinctly a separate mechanism than on any other mounts examined. On this account continual inquiries were made as to whether the design had ever been found defective. All of the officers who had handled artillery of this type were positive that no difficulties had ever been experienced with the buffers.

Now this design was originally for the 305mm but found to be too limiting. Since the real work of recoil absorption was by the "rolling gun carriage" within the saddle, there was a severe limit on the elevation and propellent charge that could be used with the heavier gun (almost double the range was obtained with the alternative war-time sliding mount). It's all in the book. Hence my current supposition/agreement it may have been improved post-war. It would seem that the old carriage and considerable part of old mounting system was retained however.

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Wednesday 17th of November 2010 08:09:07 AM

At last - an expert on the railway guns.

To quote from the Landships article on the 305mm gun - "It was a pretty crude system, but it worked, and it allowed the French to field a whole array of heavy railway guns, that originally started out in a naval role."

If the term "primitive" offended, I apologise - it was only used to emphasise that the recoil system was less advanced than that which used hydraulic recoil cylinders.

Regards,

Charlie

Ah, many thanks Guy François.

I did not look far enough into that American book! PDA, you will find a huge amount about this gun, including photos and detail drawings, in Section 169 (page 91) and following - 10 pages in all - in the link I gave.

The Americans rated it most highly - "A number of these mounts were operated by American personnel, and they were considered among the most valuable guns and mounts in the French collection." and "... probably the finest large gun in the possession of the French Army during the war."

So, a genuine WW1 model of a most significant major weapon.

Extract from the US Army 1922 report on this gun.

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Thursday 18th of November 2010 04:41:03 PM

PDA wrote:

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Well then, we have indeed overlooked this model kit since it was released.

The kit is made by Wespe Models of Romania, in two scales: 1/72 and 1/87. Wespe make some other kits that will be of interest to WW1 modelers, but I believe this is the only WW1 kit in 1/72, the others are 1/87.

http://www.wespemodels.ro/

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Hmmm ... they currently list it for 1/72 only in their "Promotions of the Month", not in the online catalogue.  Seems like it might be on the way out of their 1/72 range.  Pity, marvellous piece of artillery, a naval conversion from the days when naval arms had just recently (and more or less incidentally) embraced "over the horizon" capability, hitherto shunned.

But they also have a 1/72 "Horse Drawn Convoy".  Is that of interest in WW1 modelling?

 

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Friday 19th of November 2010 04:30:58 AM

Wespe do some other WW1 stuff, but in 1/87 scale (so they would fit in with that one-and-only model of the  'Burstyn tank'). This gun, for example, is also done in 1/87, along with some Renault FTs, and the famous 75, I believe.

Whilst 1/87 would not fit with anything from Copplestone, or Zvezda's Germans (or indeed anything from Zvezda), they might fit with some of the Airfix, or Peter Pig figures, and certainly with a lot of Preiser's stuff.