Landships II

Daan · Private

I need some help

CharlieC · Legend

I don't think this is the gun the vendors are talking about. The gun in the image is a fortress gun from about the 1880s or so - no recoil system. These were used in WW1 once the front line had stabilised into a stalemate. These generally were heavy (around 5 tons), slow firing guns which often required site preparation before deployment.

For a one ton weight you probably are looking at a field gun of around 75mm calibre. You haven't said what the country of origin is so you may be looking at something like a French 75mm M1897, German FK 96 n.A, British 13 or 18 pounder or a number of other light field guns.

Get back to us when you have more information on the gun. I'd be very careful about this purchase - the WW1 guns often have purchase restrictions imposed by governments. In Australia you need approval from the Minister of Defence to transfer ownership of a WW1 gun on government property.

Regards,

Charlie

28juni14 · Hero

Hallo Daan!

The piece illustrated appears to be�a 10cm K.

As Charlie has stated,� these guns were pressed into service by Reserve Foot Artillerie batterien.�� Though lacking an on-carriage recoil system the gun had "reach", which�satisfied the tactical needs for long range interdiction.

-- Edited by 28juni14 on Friday 3rd of December 2010 03:07:38 PM

Daan · Private

Thanks for the help so far!

I am not certain at all if this is the actual gun we're supposed to be getting. Things are going very slow.

The owners of the gun are actually giving it away to us for free, but since it's classified as a monument I guess it will take a while and I heard that the government is actually doing the paperwork on this.

This should turn out to be quite interesting.

If all goes well, we're hoping to display it at "Wings and Wheels", aka "Ursel Military History Show". We visiti it each year and we've displayed a 1954 Belgian Ex-Military Minerva Jeep there for the last two years.

http://www.wingsandwheels.be/UKhome.html

-- Edited by Daan on Friday 3rd of December 2010 06:44:33 PM

Ralph Lovett · General

It does look a bit like the German 10cm Kanone 1899 but this model would have a vertical sliding wedge breech.� The one in the photograph has a horizontal sliding wedge.

To compare the differences you can see my page on the 10cm Kanone 1899.

My next thought was that it might be the 12cm s. Kanone but even though this one has a somewhat similar carriage and horizontal siding wedge breech, the barrel is not banned as is the mystery gun.

This is the page on the 12cm schwere Kanone.

I think the gun in the photograph could be a Krupp export gun to Belgium.

R/

Ralph

28juni14 · Hero

Yes, Ralph,� I've erred in my earlier ID of this piece.�� Now, after taking into account the elongated barrel and screw breach ,� the only item of German artillery that fits is the� s12cm Kanone.�� These systems all used similar carriages it seems.�

Daan · Private

Wow, you guys really are good at this. Lots of good information.

I hope I get some more information about this as soon as possible so we can confirm things.

Arie Dijkhuis · General

Hiya Lads,

The carriage is indeed of the schwere 12cm Kanone. My first thought was that this must be the 10,5cm Kanone L/35 in R�derlafette der Marine. 14 of these barrels were laid in the schwere 12cm undercarriage. This didn't work well, and soon they were placed in a Behelfslafette, similar to the 15 and 17cm SK i.R. Although this gun has a sliding block, it slides to the right of the barrel, and not to the left as on this one...

Could this be a 10,5cm SK L/45 der Marine in R�derlafette? The book 'Das Ger�t der Schweren Artillerie' makes no mention that this barrel was placed in the 12cm carriage, only that it was made mobile in a similar way to the previous gun. This could mean that it was also placed in the 12cm carriage, but also that a similar Behelfslafette was produced.

Who can shead some light on this?

With kind regards,

-Arie.

Arie Dijkhuis · General

Hiya lads,

Enclosed you will find scale drawings of the 12cm schwere Kanone. Perhaps these will help in solving the mystery...

With kind regards,

-Arie.

28juni14 · Hero

Arie,� your first sketch of the Naval 10cm most closely resembles Daan's photograph.�

Note the attached grainy pic of the same piece purported to be 12cm.�� Clearly the long tapered barrel suggests a smaller calibre than 12cm.� I think you've correctly identified the gun as the illusive 10cm naval piece.

ALVF · Major

Hello,

A suggestion:
In August 1914, some "rare" guns were send to the german Navy to arm "Marine Division", especially:
-2 15-cm Belagerungskanone L/30 (Spanien): export model not yet delivered.
-2 13,5-cm Belagerungskanone L/35 ("�lterer Konstruktion").
-11 10,5-cm Belagerungskanone ("�lterer Konstruktion").
The 10,5-cm mounting was made by Krupp on old carriages (unfortunately not stated).
All these guns were used in Belgium in 1914-1916 years.I have some photographs of these rare 15-cm and 13,5-cm guns with naval crews but no of the 10,5-cm.
Only in february 1916 were made 30 10,5-cm SKL/35 in R�derlafette and in july 1916 14 10,5-cm KL/35 in R�derlafette with "Rohre und Wiegen von der Marine geliefert", these guns were quite different of the photograph of the gun to identify.
Yours sincerely,
Guy Fran�ois.

Arie Dijkhuis · General

Gentlemen,

I have calculated the scale of this picture. It should be about 1/47.37. I took a fixed measure of the carriage, 225cm and measured the lenght of the carriage in the picture. I devided 225cm with this length and came to said scale. I then measured the tube length and multiplied it with the scale. This came to a barrel length of about 374 cm. I devided this by 10,52 (the caliber) and came to a tube length of 35 calibers. It should therefore be one of the L/35 guns. This rules out any captured Belgium 12cm guns (the fortress guns were also laid in old carriages (not stated which) by Krupp), as they�had a tube length of L/25. No other captured equipment fits the bill either. The mystery continues...

With kind regard,

-Arie.