Landships II

Jaroslav K · Major

Photo WW I

Jaroslav K · Major

Austin armoured cars. 0_228d1_8af5f39b_XL

Photo

-- Edited by Jaroslav K on Sunday 5th of December 2010 07:30:36 PM

Jaroslav K · Major

Can someone identify what is in the pictures?
Thenks

PDA · Legend

Austin armoured cars. The last one is from the British 17th�Battalion, Tank Corps.

Jaroslav K · Major

Thenks.

CharlieC · Legend

The top image is an Austin-Putilov from the Civil War. A Russian speaker might be able to help with slogan on the cab. The guy in the leather jacket is possibly a political officer - the leather jacket was almost a uniform for Bolshevik officials.

Regards,

Charlie

Rectalgia · Legend

Top car presumably named for Matvey Skobelev - who it seems was in and out of favour with the Bolsheviks at various times.� Or maybe they played it safe and pretended it was Mikhail Skobelev who was commemorated.� Only a Russian would know for sure.

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Monday 6th of December 2010 03:17:28 AM

PDA · Legend

Actually, I think the top one is not an Austin Putilov, because it doesn't have the diagonally offset turrets. I believe she is a Series 2, although it does look like the turrets have been worked on to allow the machine guns to engage aircraft.

Hughbearson · General

The first�one is an�Austin 2nd series, with plates covering the spokes (look at the inside of the right (the car's right) front wheel).
The second one from the rear is a 3rd series. I think...
The bloke in a leather jacket is a crewman probably.

-- Edited by Hughbearson on Monday 6th of December 2010 01:18:20 PM

CharlieC · Legend

PDA wrote:

Actually, I think the top one is not an Austin Putilov, because it doesn't have the diagonally offset turrets. I believe she is a Series 2, although it does look like the turrets have been worked on to allow the machine guns to engage aircraft.

I agree - not an Austin-Putilov - looks like the machine gun mounts were similar to the Austin Putilovs though.

Regards,

Charlie

�

Hughbearson · General

- but could be a peerless because of its twin wheels at the back.

PDA · Legend

Hughbearson wrote:

- but could be a peerless because of its twin wheels at the back.

You were right the first time, Hugh. She (the second one) is an Austin 3rd series. Or sometimes called 1918 model.

http://derela.republika.pl/austin.htm

Jaroslav K · Major

Thank you for the information.

Jaroslav K · Major

??

-- Edited by Jaroslav K on Monday 6th of December 2010 04:14:07 PM

Hughbearson · General

Thats a Russian Ford armoured car.

PDA · Legend

That's a very good photo of a British, Admiralty Pattern, Ford Model T Armoured Car:

http://www.landships.info/landships/car_articles.html?load=car_articles/armoured_tford.html

It must have been left behind by Locker-Lampson's lads in the Russian Armoured Car Division.

also see here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/yourplaceandmine/topics/war/rnacd.shtml

Jaroslav K · Major

PDA Thank you for the information.

jagjetta · Brigadier

Here is a photo of an armored car in Russian service I recently acquired, though I haven't taken any time yet to research it. �Seemed a good time to share the image though!

John

Michel Boer · Brigadier

That's an Austin 2nd series, captured by Austrian troops. You don't see them so much with the extra construction on top of the driver's cab. Haven't figured out yet what it actually is...
The red-blue-white markings where�used by the Tsarist army (White armies from the civil war used them the other way around), but weren't seen very often.
Absolutely great picture!

Paul Bonnett · Hero

With regards the Ford A/C photo, there seems to be two individuals that are wearing different styles of uniform to the majority. The one in the top left and the other standing nearest the back wheel. Could these be members of the British crew "posing" with their A/C to their Russian allies ?

Paul

-- Edited by Paul Bonnett on Thursday 9th of December 2010 01:01:22 AM

28juni14 · Hero

I believe the construction you allude to is a turret traverse stop to prevent a� fire sweep from impacting the companion turret.

Paul Bonnett · Hero

I would also concur that is a turret stop

Hughbearson · General

And combined air vent?

LincolnTanker · Commander in Chief

The rear part of the Ford T A/C looks fully rounded, the back of the cab looks curved as well.� The drawings I have seen show a rectangular rear with rounded corners�and �a rear door, were both used by the RNACD?

Jaroslav K · Major

Lanchester.

-- Edited by Jaroslav K on Thursday 9th of December 2010 09:08:43 PM

-- Edited by Jaroslav K on Thursday 9th of December 2010 09:09:12 PM

Jaroslav K · Major

Lanchester

Jaroslav K · Major

Austin

Ivan · Field Marshal

1) "Skobeleff" is Austin 2nd Series, captured 1916 by Bulgarian solders in Romanian front (on the phpto Russian oficer and Bulgarian engineer).

2) Ford T is no Russian! This is AC from British armoured car division of Locker-Lampson in Russia.

3) "Rurik" is no Lanchester! It is Russo-Baltique D 24/40 HP armoured by Bratoljuboff-Work (Project of staff-captain Nekrassoff).�This AC's (total 10) was no�fighting - only in reserve in Petrograd.

-- Edited by Ivan on Friday 10th of December 2010 05:58:04 PM

Hughbearson · General

I meant Russian as in used by them, just to add.

Jaroslav K · Major

Ivan wrote:

1) "Skobeleff" is Austin 2nd Series, caotured 1916 by Bulgaria solders in Romanian front (on the phpto Russian and Bulgarian oficers).

2) Ford T is no Russian! This is AC from British armoured car division of Locker-Lampson in Russia.

3) "Rurik" is no Lanchester! It is Russo-Baltique D 24/40 HP armoured by Bratoljuboff-Work (Project of shtab-captain Nekrassoff).�This AC's (total 10) was no�fighting - only in reserve in Petrograd.

Thank you for the information.

�

Jaroslav K · Major

Russo-Balt.
0_20db8_ade26468_XL

Jaroslav K · Major

'Belgian Armoured Cars in Russia'

http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Russia/Russia_00.htm

Jaroslav K · Major

Soviet armor.
http://soviethammer.devhub.com/blog/533754-early-soviet-armor-i/

Jaroslav K · Major

?

PDA · Legend

3ton Packard truck chassis with armour from the Isorski works. Two were made. Armed with 37mm Maxim Nordenfeldt, allegedly, although it doesn't look like it in these photos.

Ivan · Field Marshal

Jaroslav K wrote:

Russo-Balt.

Thanks!
The first time I see these of photos where you have found them? The�link give me please!

It is 1st automobile machine-gun company of the colonel Dobrzhansky - the very first armored division in the world! Rsso-Baltique C 24/40 HP with Ischorski armour, project og Grauen & Dobrzhansky. Total 8 built 1914.

Packard Ischorsky�also from this company. Total 2 built 1915.

�

Jaroslav K · Major

Ivan wrote:

Jaroslav K wrote:

Russo-Balt.

Thanks!
The first time I see these of photos where you have found them? The�link give me please!
It is 1st automobile machine-gun company of the colonel Dobrzhansky - the very first armored division in the world! Rsso-Baltique C 24/40 HP with Ischorski armour, project og Grauen & Dobrzhansky. Total 8 built 1914.

Packard Ischorsky�also from this company. Total 2 built 1915.
�

Ivan I sent a private message.
�

Paul H · Major

I have a question about these armoured cars. How thick was the armour ? It cannot have been very thick due to the weight making driving them on those wheels impossible but if it was thin..then how thin? Would it have stopped a rifle bullet? In some of the photos it appears to be nothing more than steel sheeting!!!

-- Edited by Paul H on Saturday 11th of December 2010 07:33:46 PM

PDA · Legend

around 7mm, and, yes, the Russian armour plate was very good quality, better than the British quality, and so would probably have stopped rifle bullets at even quite close ranges.

-- Edited by PDA on Saturday 11th of December 2010 07:40:19 PM

Rectalgia · Legend

Yes, it would generally be reckoned 6-7mm armour plate would stop any military rifle calibre, even a "square" (non-glancing) hit at close range. Much more modern armoured/scout cars were built to such a specification and probably still are. Such light armour is not sure protection against penetrating core ammunition of course (as opposed to common "ball"). A non-glancing hit at close range would certainly penetrate. Also higher velocity (such as with discarding sabot) will penetrate at close/medium range even though the delivered energy may be reduced.

Then there's the "reversed projectile" trick - though whether or not that is effective against specialised armour plate is yet to be demonstrated AFAIK. The general consensus seems to be that this relied on getting a solid non-glancing hit simply by reversing the standard 8x57JS projectile in its case. If granular propellent is used I consider there is also a chance the charge is compressed, firing pressure increased and muzzle velocity increased accordingly but I seem to be in the minority on that explanation. Anyway, British army ordnance bods have lately demonstrated penetration of replica early-mark rhomboid armour with the reversed projectile when the standard round under identical conditions simply put a dent in it. I forget the actual thickness of that armour (around the 6mm) but metallurgical analysis indicated the original armour used steel which was practically identical to that used in roller and ball bearings and such steel was incorporated into the replica plate (no detail about forging/rolling, annealing/tempering but the result was proof against standard ball ammunition right enough).

Bottom line - 7mm armour plate of good quality is going to stop/deflect just about anything thrown at it on the battlefield by standard small arms using standard ammunition and tactics. It takes specialised or heavy weapons or specialised ammunition (and applicable tactics and risks) to penetrate it. But I'm glad I don't have to stake my life on that.