Landships II

diorama1914 · Lieutenant-Colonel

red jerry cans?

baldwin · Hero

From what I can make out from various sources red flimsies were used to hold petrol.
They were used for other liquids,paraffin and water,as to the colours used I don't have much idea,but would kike to know. I have the "tests" for the W^D flimsies at hand so more info would be ideal

PDA · Legend

IIRC, fuel came in red coloured flimsies (not "jerry cans"), and the tops were tied with string so you could tell it was fuel in the dark. Water came in black coloured flimsies. I believe there was a white coloured flimsy as well, but can't remember what it contained.

Rob · Legend

baldwin wrote:

From what I can make out from various sources red flimsies were used to hold petrol.
They were used for other liquids,paraffin and water,as to the colours used I don't have much idea,but would kike to know. I have the "tests" for the W^D flimsies at hand so more info would be ideal

Barry, do you mean photographs etc? I've got three real ones - here's a couple of them;

�

Paul H · Major

Why were they called "flimsies" ?

plastic fan · General

Hi Rob,I am wanting to scratch build fuel cans for my Mk II tank but I have no idea what the size of the cans were. Could you tell me the dimensions of them are? I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Rectalgia · Legend

Why called "flimsies"?

Good question - the simple answer is because they were made of light-gauge zinc or tin coated steel plate ("tin" in British parlance) and were not very rugged (soldered joints).� But the matter of original terminolgy and "pollution" by WW2 usage has to be considered.�

I know the term flimsy was used for the WW2 4 (Imperial) gallon "petrol tin" with the folding wire handle and pressed plug closure (like a light-weight welch plug, meant to be destroyed when opening).� I am not sure whether those were used in WW1 or if they were called "flimsies" if they were.� I am even less sure whether the term was applied to the 2 gallon WW1 resealable POL containers we are now calling flimsies.� But if it did apply, then the WW2 4 gallon variety was even more flimsy (even with the same gauge material, due to larger surfaces).� There was an improved version, resealable and with (slightly) heavier construction.

Incidentally having those containers resealable can be a liability.� Than means that they can be stored partially-filled which means with an appreciable vapour volume - and then temperature extremes can cause sufficient pressure changes to flex the walls, base and top enough to cause hairline cracks with pinhole punctures and larger.� The "improved" resealable flimsy was not an improvement in every respect - but it certainly was in terms of the transport of full containers.

That cracking and holing can happen even with the contemporary cylindrical 1 gallon/5 litre vehicle emergency supply containers (which should carry appropriate warnings if sold in any self-respecting "nanny state") and those are comparatively robust due to their shape and smaller size.� It takes the much stronger construction of the actual jerrycan to (relatively) safely store and move volatiles at less than the full container capacity.

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Thursday 30th of December 2010 07:07:00 AM

baldwin · Hero

Platic Fan
What scale are you modelling in ? As I said I have the "tests" for the W^D sets,each sprue has 10 flimsies and I have 3 sprues. If you are modelling in 1:76 /1:72 then they will do. Get in touch if they are to the correct scale.
Cheers

baldwin · Hero

Rob
Looking at your flimsies,Pratts for some reason makes me think of paraffin,and shell petrol. Any ideas? or am I taking too much cough medicine ?????????

CharlieC · Legend

My late father, who drove tanks around the desert in North Africa, made the comment once that the 4 gallon flimsie was a waste of time because they leaked and split. Most of the tank crews acquired jerry cans from any knocked out German vehicle to replace the flimsies.

Regards,

Charlie

Rectalgia · Legend

baldwin wrote:

Rob
Looking at your flimsies,Pratts for some reason makes me think of paraffin,and shell petrol. Any ideas? or am I taking too much cough medicine ?????????

Pratts was supposedly owned by Esso and marketed petrol in green tins.� They may well have sold paraffin too BUT see http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/00-app1/pet-tins.jpg.� I think that may answer John's query on size/dimensions as well.

Steve

�

Rob · Legend

More information on Pratt's here. Really need to get around to fully restoring the petrol tins, along with several WW1 period boxes that need marking up

http://vintagegarage.co.uk/histories/aahtmhistories/aahistory_1.htm

plastic fan · General

Hi Rectalgia, that does answer my question! Thanks a lot. I have copied the page.

Ironsides · Legend

Have you never heard of Esso Blue... wink

�

Cheers smile

Paul H · Major

Rectalgia wrote:

Why called "flimsies"?

Good question - the simple answer is because they were made of light-gauge zinc or tin coated steel plate ("tin" in British parlance) and were not very rugged (soldered joints).� But the matter of original terminolgy and "pollution" by WW2 usage has to be considered.�

I know the term flimsy was used for the WW2 4 (Imperial) gallon "petrol tin" with the folding wire handle and pressed plug closure (like a light-weight welch plug, meant to be destroyed when opening).� I am not sure whether those were used in WW1 or if they were called "flimsies" if they were.� I am even less sure whether the term was applied to the 2 gallon WW1 resealable POL containers we are now calling flimsies.� But if it did apply, then the WW2 4 gallon variety was even more flimsy (even with the same gauge material, due to larger surfaces).� There was an improved version, resealable and with (slightly) heavier construction.

Incidentally having those containers resealable can be a liability.� Than means that they can be stored partially-filled which means with an appreciable vapour volume - and then temperature extremes can cause sufficient pressure changes to flex the walls, base and top enough to cause hairline cracks with pinhole punctures and larger.� The "improved" resealable flimsy was not an improvement in every respect - but it certainly was in terms of the transport of full containers.

That cracking and holing can happen even with the contemporary cylindrical 1 gallon/5 litre vehicle emergency supply containers (which should carry appropriate warnings if sold in any self-respecting "nanny state") and those are comparatively robust due to their shape and smaller size.� It takes the much stronger construction of the actual jerrycan to (relatively) safely store and move volatiles at less than the full container capacity.

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Thursday 30th of December 2010 07:07:00 AM

Thanks for that... smile

It thought it had to be something to do with the fact that they were "flimsy" but to know for sure is better.
Cheers
Paul

�

-- Edited by Paul H on Friday 31st of December 2010 02:44:41 PM

mickk · Captain

Heres some of my collection of tins, they are a lovely bright red. I put them in my paintings sometimes. they make a nice splash of colour in an otherwise brown and grey world.
�
Mick.

Hughbearson · General

Very nice painting. Is that a Panzer I track I see?

mickk · Captain

Thank you. Its an RSO track link, one of my favorite WW2 vehicles. It needs a clean up then Ill decide what to do with it, maybe a painting of one to display with it confuse

�
Mick.

kieffer · Commander in Chief

talking about the colors: there were green/white painted cans too. I posted this picture some time ago, but I've forgotten where, something about Colt MG's I think.

Regards, Kieffer

plastikk · Colonel

I have qestion - who makes the jerry cans in 1/72?

MTorrent · Lieutenant-Colonel

If you mean these flimsies, SHQ Miniatures makes them of white metal.

http://www.shqminiatures.co.uk/Ranges/WWII/British/Britishmain.php?UID=2011010400253591.153.217.137

For German jerry cans Revell's LRDG set is very good, having 18 jerry cans, sacks, wooden boxes and plenty of other useful material...

-- Edited by MTorrent on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 12:18:07 AM

-- Edited by MTorrent on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 12:27:33 AM

Marty · Sergeant

Would these tins, or flimsies be the same as the water can for the Vickers Machine Gun?
Although I do beleive those were 2 gallon.
Also, did they have a chain and ring on the cap?
Thx. -- Marty

Rob · Legend

Hi Marty, the very same - originally there was a canvas bag for the Vickers, but the crews adopted empty petrol tins. I've never seen one with a chain and ring on the cap before

Marty · Sergeant

Thx Rob,

I can't find the info I wanted to show you.
Here is a link to a drawing on the avatar used at the top of this sites page--

http://www.vickersgun.com/
http://www.vickersgun.com/gallery.htm

At the top of the left of the pages you see their avatar, flimsie with cap dangling on a chain.

I have a PDF file that shows the watercan with cap and chain.
But cannot print it out and there is no link.
Also I have the book or manual written by Ian Skennerton, who shows a drawing of said can, with cap and chain on the acessories page.
The chain connects to a hole in the handle near the cap end.
Which your green can seems to have a hole in the right spot.
But that may be just a mark on the handle.

Anyway, you did answer my question. They are the same can.
Also, I was totally unaware that a canvas bag had been used.
I have never seen that.
Odd it seems the pictures of the Vickers set up do not include a watercan.
I just can't seem to find one to show you what I mean.

Marty · Sergeant

Rob,

Found what I had lost.
Scroll down on the info and there is a Wtr Can (flimsy) with a narative to the side.
Perhaps the chains were flimsy as well and never lasted.

http://www.canuck.freehosting.net/vickers.htm

All the best.

Great War Truck · Brigadier

I have a 1943 dated 2 gallon tin (note, not flimsy and certainly not Jerrycan) with chain and cap. I will photo it for you when i have a second.

Great War Truck · Brigadier

-- Edited by Great War Truck on Wednesday 9th of February 2011 11:13:09 PM
�

-- Edited by Great War Truck on Wednesday 9th of February 2011 11:23:19 PM

Marty · Sergeant

Great photos of the cans Gents. Thank you.

And of course like anything else, it seems more questions float to the surface.

If your cans Rob are WW1 vintage,then the caps look near identical to the one in the photo supplied by GWT.
And their design (caps)looks as though they may have had or could have had a cross rod for a chain to attach.
But -- no place on the can other than possibly the handle to attach the anchor end of the chain to by means of a (ring?).

Rob, are the bottoms of your cans bent-ribbed-reinforced as well?

Hope you don't mind all the questions.

Thx again,Marty

Paul Bonnett · Hero

http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/index.htm

Maybe this site will help clear up some questions. Click on Accessories at left, scroll down and click on Water-cooling equipment
Paul

-- Edited by Paul Bonnett on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 02:31:55 AM

Marty · Sergeant

Thanks Paul.
I had been to that site many times and for the life of me can't figure out why I never clicked on accessories.

Great pictures on the variety of cans. And an explanation on caps and chains.

Does anyone know if the cans with the rim-less tops are WW I vintage?
I have seen pictures of cans claimed to be WW II with rims, but I was under the impression they were USA made.

Also, does anyone have the demensions of a WW I can? I would appreciate that info.

Thanks in advance, Marty

-- Edited by Marty on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 04:14:15 PM