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Post Info TOPIC: High resolution photos of Minerva armoured cars on maneuvers


Sergeant

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High resolution photos of Minerva armoured cars on maneuvers
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From the library of congress:



-- Edited by oirob on Wednesday 2nd of March 2011 02:00:29 PM

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Legend

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Those are highly interesting. At first I would have said that these were in Russia. The leather coat with fur collar was, I've always thought, specially designed for the Belgian AC Squadron in Russia, and the kepi is an Yser-style, which makes it 1915 onwards.

On the other hand, the officer with the tall kepi looks very much like General Leman, and the road sign in the 5th pic appears to have the word "route" on it, so it seems that these pics were taken before the Squadron's departure. In a couple of pics there are what look like French fusiliers marins (with the pompom on top of his hat).

-- Edited by James H on Wednesday 2nd of March 2011 02:13:47 PM

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Sergeant

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What is this on top of the car in the 9th picture?
Could this be some kind of improvised "turret"?

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Commander in Chief

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James H wrote:


On the other hand, the officer with the tall kepi looks very much like General Leman, and the road sign in the 5th pic appears to have the word "route" on it, so it seems that these pics were taken before the Squadron's departure. In a couple of pics there are what look like French fusiliers marins (with the pompom on top of his hat).

-- Edited by James H on Wednesday 2nd of March 2011 02:13:47 PM



He's standing near major Paul Collon (pic 3 too), the first commanding officer of the ACM corps. He organised the dressing of the corps crews, I think he let them made by a Parisian haute couture lady. Later in Russia, the Belgian high command or brass got rid of him, he was a man that rather easily made enemies.

 



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cdr


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These are fotos of manoeuvres of the Belgian Acm (Mors and no minerva in sight) near Satory (Paris France) before departure for Russia. I think nrs 4 and 6 do not belong in this series (French ac) foto nr 9 is of one of the two armoured command cars of the unit (observation post)

(not Leman it's a French officer)

Carl

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Legend

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Of course. What am I talking about? General Leman was taken prisoner at Liège in Aug 1914. Doh.

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Anonymous

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None of these are Minerva armored cars. However some had a Minerva engine.

These were Mors and Peugeot from the Belgian Auto-Canons-Mitrailleuses Corps, except one that show a French car. Pics are taken in paris.

The turret is an observation post of the so-called auto-chef ( command-car). It was armored only frontwards.

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cdr


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The Frenchman is a general Clergerie

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Field Marshal

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kieffer wrote:

major Paul Collon (pic 3 too),

 




 No Paul! Major Auguste Colon!
Paul Semet was 2nd chief of ACM in Russia.

P.S. Photos 3, 4, 11 (from left to right) no Minerva - 100% Peugeot (look at radiator!)



-- Edited by Ivan on Sunday 6th of March 2011 12:25:03 AM

-- Edited by Ivan on Sunday 6th of March 2011 05:44:04 PM

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Commander in Chief

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yes, sorry, Auguste: his son, also with the ACM was named Paul.
The uniforms were tailored by Madam Paquin on instignation by the major. Boots were from Galeries Lafayette, all rather luxurious.

-- Edited by kieffer on Sunday 6th of March 2011 10:40:19 AM

-- Edited by kieffer on Sunday 6th of March 2011 10:41:40 AM

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Field Marshal

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Belgians in France and in Russia, many pictires:
http://felbert.livejournal.com/790273.html

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Legend

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This is an interesting pic. The caption reads "Belgian armoured convoy in Paris", but the cyclists are particularly striking. They seem to be wearing a similar outfit to that of the AC crew, maybe a little shorter. AFAIK the Carabinier Cyclists gave up their green uniforms and were issued with khaki in 1915, including a short khaki greatcoat. There does seem to have been, very briefly, an interim, Yser-type uniform with a green kepi. Anyone any idea where these cyclists fit in? Regular Cyclist Battalion or a separate unit attached to the ACs?


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Field Marshal

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Other good link:
http://1914.borda.ru/?1-7-0-00000045-000-10001-0

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Commander in Chief

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the cyclists and moto-cyclists joined the ACM in 1915, their commander being lieutenant Edgard Van der Donckt. The bicycles were bought in Paris, British Sun and French Peugeots. As I understood, the ACM was meant to be an independent self supporting unit, so I think the cyclists were fit in the corps.

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Captain

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Yes, Kiefer, very luxurious ! But what else at the time that the whole French industry was vampirized by manufacturing for their own army ? This explains also why Collon selected Kelner, a De Luxe body builder. Nobody else was available ! Gemsco

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Legend

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kieffer wrote:
the cyclists and moto-cyclists joined the ACM in 1915, their commander being lieutenant Edgard Van der Donckt. The bicycles were bought in Paris, British Sun and French Peugeots. As I understood, the ACM was meant to be an independent self supporting unit, so I think the cyclists were fit in the corps.


Thanks, Kieffer. Very enlightening.



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Lieutenant-Colonel

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First two photos are very informative.

I think in the first photo all nine cars are Mors. They all have lights, which Peugeots didn't have. If there was three command cars, as we have been told, one seems to be missing, because only two seem to have small turret. This makes ten Mors total.

On the second photo there are three cars on the road, after the closest one, which seem to be Peugeots, because there have no box on the rear. Three Peugeots are also seen on the third photo, behind major Collon.

This makes me to make a conclusion that if ACM had 13 armoured cars, 10 of them were Mors and 3 were Peugeots.

Does the book about Belgian ACM in Russia have information about different cars? Other sources say nothing about this.


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cdr


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The ACM in Russia (at the start) had 359 nco's and men, 13 officers, 2 docters and 1 priest

battery 1 had 3 autocannon (37mm naval gun and hotchkiss mg) 2 automitrailleuse (8 mm hotckiss) and a command car
battery 2 had the same organisation
battery 3 was in charge of transport and supply (26 motor vehicles, ambulances etc)
battery 4 had a motorcycle section (indian/harley davidson some with side) and 3 platoons of cyclists (120 men in total) (cyclists used the lewis as an lmg)

Carl

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