"German mock-ups of a British Heavy Tank and a Renault Light Tank. The Germans used cloth, wood, and scrap metal to construct these dummy tanks, which were used in the Meuse-Argonne campaign to deceive Allied aviators."
Captain Wilson does get his wires crossed from time to time. Why Heavy Tanks in Meuse-Argonne, when both Allied and Beute were far to the north? How would supposed Allied Tanks deceive Allied aviators? Is it not more likely that these were for training German troops?
"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
Hi James interesting picture, I think the most likely explanation is to decieve the allies of the actual location of german tank units... similar things were done during WW2... dummy tanks, tanks disguised as trucks, trucks as tanks the first and the last Ive seen from WW1 pics...
I think that all wooden tanks built by Germans was only training tanks for German infantry on training camps. I believe that the only dummy tanks, used during this war, was some Mark build by British Army.
If German dummy Mark could be used as decoy (the German Army also used the Mark), it was believable for Renault FT. It is interesting to see that Germans never built Schneider and St Chamond's mock-up for training.
The French Army gave order to built A7V mock-up and, at least, two models were buid (check on photos).
Bonne journée - Michel
-- Edited by Tanker on Monday 14th of March 2011 12:45:05 PM
I think Whippet mock-ups were used too. Even a German built, found in Lille, but I am not sure that one was a decoy or a 'trainer'. There are a few earlier topics on this forum, on mock-ups, with extensive listings and links to other info, and pictures. And, sorry once again for diverting but I simply can't resist: a Dutch trainer or simulator or whatever, made of card and tin plate on a GMC chassis, in the roaring twenties.
(/.) Dummy gun positions.- -The Germans make considerable use of dummy gun positions near the occupied emplacements, and employ dummy flashes in them. (g.) Dummy trenches. It has been found unnecessary to dig dummy trenches more than 20 inches deep ; provided the edges are kept sharp, it is said that they throw sufficient shadow to appear like real ones in aeroplane photographs. (h.) Dummy saps. In chalky ground dummy saps are sometimes made by turning ever the top soil and exposing the chalk, a small T-head being constructed at the end of the "sap" and lightly wired.
10. Ruses and sniping. For remarks on snipers' posts and sniping see under "k Snipers' posts," on page 15. The following are example of ruses which have been employed by German troops : (a.) Dummy figures. Dummy placed some 60 yards in front of the German trench ; on moving the dummy, it exploded. Upright dummy in a shell hole ; small electric battery on the dummy connected with an explosive charge in contact with an unexploded shell Slightest movement of dummy caused contact to be made and exploded the shell. Dummy in German uniform, apparently a corpse, placed in No Man' Land. Patrol going out to secure identification, found a strong German patrol near the dummy. In another instance, the dummy was made to move and beckon, as if for assistance. Dummy moved along German trench to make our men expose themselves when firing at it ; fire at once opened on our men from a machine gun. Dummies placed in 'empty trench to give it the appearance of being occupied.
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3. On April 4 I posted the dummies, which had been previ- ously prepared, in the Blinddarm and between the Blinddarm and the southwest corner of La Boisselle. The dummies were arranged in three groups, which were fastened on to laths, op- erated by strings leading to dugouts, thus insuring the safety of the men operating them, even in the event of the heaviest enemy fire.
1. Sufficient attention was not paid to rendering all works as invisible as possible to ground and air observation. Screens and dummy works must be employed on a consider- ably larger scale than hitherto. (Cf. part la, pars. 3 and 19; part 16, par. 5 et seq.) 1 2. The more defensive works there are, the more targets must be engaged by the enemy, and the more will he be obliged to scatter his ammunition.
Great detective work (again) Ivor. But those dummies James posted seem extraordinarily detailed to have been simply intended to fool allied aviators. I'm not sure offhand when steroscopy came into military use but ordinary panoramic cameras (and human eyes) at altitude are easily taken in by quite crude approximations - even carefully-placed two dimensional ones. Developing anti-tank tactics on the other hand ...
I may have to re-evaluate the dummy of Australian Prime Minister Billy Hughes (in the above) in the light of your findings but I'm reasonably sure that one was more in the nature of an antipodean version of a Guy Fawkes effigy (yet another purpose for dummies).
The corbis image above is of a dummy made from reeds caption claims its a decoy for allied bombing attacks... theres two visible in the image....so presumably its part of a production run...
Theres a book Airplane photography (1920) great detail and will probarbly answer most technical questions...
"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
Hi Tanker, the documents predate Cambrai... I would presume that Dummy tanks as decoys would only be usefull once the Germans had sufficient captured tanks and actually intended to use them... However Im not suggesting that the Germans used dummy tanks in the same way as the British and Dominion Forces directly in battle... but rather as a behind the front lines deception...
Cheers
-- Edited by Ironsides on Tuesday 15th of March 2011 10:35:40 AM
"Anti-tank Instruction.Courses of 8 days were held in January. A large number took part as spectators. Wooden tanks were used, at which machine guns and trench mortars fired until the tanks had penetrated beyond the second line, when the defense was taken over by the artillery. Instruction in the vulnerable parts of the tank was given."
"but rather as a behind the front lines deception"
I agree you for that. It would be interesting to found ground or aerial photos of German dummy tanks in this position of rear front lines deception units.
Came across this... from the History of the Fifth Division AEF, mentions a patrol warning of a tank attack which didnt materialise... however infantry did attack...
I think that all wooden tanks built by Germans was only training tanks for German infantry on training camps. I believe that the only dummy tanks, used during this war, was some Mark build by British Army.
If German dummy Mark could be used as decoy (the German Army also used the Mark), it was believable for Renault FT. It is interesting to see that Germans never built Schneider and St Chamond's mock-up for training.
The French Army gave order to built A7V mock-up and, at least, two models were buid (check on photos).
Bonne journée - Michel
-- Edited by Tanker on Monday 14th of March 2011 12:45:05 PM
The Australians used dummy tanks in action in 1918 to a] bulk out the number of tanks that appeared to be supporting them b] fool the Germans into thinking tank attacks were about to take place where they weren't. These were wood and canvas Mk Vs moved around under fire by infantry men. The Americans used dummy tanks for training. Australia, Canada, Britain, Germany, and the United States all used dummy tanks for fund raising.
http://ww-one.airforce.ru/equipment/page_01.htm the remarkable floating Mk I is used for "artillery firing exercises" (Russian) or "artillery target shooting practice" (Dutch). Obviously this would be target acquisition and tracking exercises rather than live-firing. Those punt operators would have been flat-out to match even the modest pace of a Mk I for realistic traverse so I'm supposing the whole contraption was towed, they just kept it away from the banks.