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Post Info TOPIC: WWI wartime Gew 98 conversions


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WWI wartime Gew 98 conversions
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Hello all, I was wondering if this might be true or not. In the Osprey German Stormtroop book by Ian Duray, there is a picture of three rifles. The 1st is a Gew 98, the 2nd is a Kar 98a (Issued to cavalry etc.) and the 3rd is what claims to be a Gew 98 cut down to a carbine sized storm rifle that mysteriously  looks almost like a WWII Kar98k without the leaf sight. I was wondering if such rifles really were reworked during WWI, or if I am mistaking it for a Weimar/Whermacht Reissue.

 

ANY INPUT IS USEFUL!!!

 

Greetings, Josh



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Legend

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Josh,

I don't know if it is a help or a hindrance but Small Arms of the World  by WHB Smith (Revised 10th edition, 1973) indicates that the "original carbine" is only seen in small numbers and there is no indication it was cut down from anything.  As shown at the bottom of the attachment under, it reminds one of nothing so much as the Spanish 1895 carbine, in which case the bolt would be slightly different in its locking arrangements in comparison with the other 1898s (but there is no detail of that in the book).

98Rifles.JPG

The "Carbine 98" is a different size in the source, I have (roughly) resized it here to something closer to the top two, working just approximately on the receiver length.



[edit] - Oh, and then there's a third carbine, the 98b which, "... although designated a carbine has the same length as the 98 rifle, but it has the same turned-down bolt handle and a tangent sight like that of the Kar 98a which is graduated for the SS (heavy ball) bullet." Perhaps that is the one you are talking about? Looks just like the rifle but with the 98a carbine bolt and sights - so yes, just like the Kar 98k but with different gradations for the sights and 5.5 inches longer than the Kar 98k.

-- Edited by Rectalgia on Wednesday 13th of July 2011 09:41:17 AM

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Legend

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Here is the Kar 98b
98RifleKar98b.jpg
Or - all 4 WW1 types together at roughly the same scale98Rifles4.PNG

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General

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Well Steve All the sources I read state the Kar98b was never used in WWI, as it was more or less a 20's sport rifle later adopted by the Reichswehr and police forces. the rifle in my book also does not have the groove foregrip shown but is more like the Gew 98 in that area with the single rivet mid stock. here I'll see if I can bring it up on Google books or something.

P.S The smaller 98 may or may not be very similar to the outdated Gew 88 commission carbine adopted by the German ski companies in WWI.

Couldn't display the pic I am talking about, so I'll scan it it to my comp and send it to you in an email.

Thanks, Josh

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FR73 wrote:

Well Steve All the sources I read state the Kar98b was never used in WWI, as it was more or less a 20's sport rifle later adopted by the Reichswehr and police forces. ...


Ah, thanks Josh, "Small Arms" (or that edition) puts everything prior to "the two Germanies" into one lump, my assumption about the Kar98b being incorrect then.

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Steve, do you know which of the following three would be a match to the Gew98 stock?:

- Czech V98/22
-Swede M1896
-Turkish M1938

I'm told the first is aesthetically identical, but hard to find. but what about the other two?

Greetings, Josh

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Hi Josh,

Czech versions of the 98 were generally very similar to the German - I don't know about the 98/22 except that it had protectors (or "ears") for the front sight.  Used by Turkey but I have no other detail. Maybe that became the M38 in Turkish service?  The Czechs themselves used the 98/24 which was just about identical to the Kar 98k but not all of those had the bolt-disassembly disc in the stock.  The 98/24(t) apparently did but had a dished but-plate.

Swedish stocks (including the M96) generally had a high comb and slender rear grip - sort of like a classic English shotgun - except for the potent 8x63 M40 which had a very "Mauser" type stock.  The M96 was the right length and weight to match the Gew98 but had a foreward-hand groove and a tangent sight.

As said, I don't have anything on the Turkish M1938 but if we could assume it was another Czech M29 like those supplied to Persia-Iran ... Well, in Iranian service those became the M1309 (AH) carbine and the M1317 rifle (1930 and 1938 AD respectively). Now that M29 or 17 or 38 rifle (call it what you will) as supplied to Iran (7.92x57) was just about identical to the Gew 98 in length and weight - but it had a foreward hand-grip groove and a turned-down bolt.  And it had the tangent rear-site instead of the bulky bridge type.  And it had fore-sight protectors. 

And it might have been nothing like the Turkish model - those might even have been 33/40s (254mm shorter than the Gew98), I don't know.

Sorry,

Steve



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