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Post Info TOPIC: Lance fusée (rocket [?] launcher)


Colonel

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Lance fusée (rocket [?] launcher)
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Hello,

Found this picture, explanation says it is a "Lance fusée" (Rocket launcher), I suppose used by Chinese or Japanese Army and I don't know if it is pre-or post WW1.

Anybody has more information?

Did they used "fusées" in trenches or elsewhere during WW1, I don't mean the (experimental) rockets on planes or the signalling fuses used at the front (asking Aie support,...). If yes, are there any photo's?

Thanks,

DJ

006f.png



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Hero

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Hello Tankcommander

The item is question is actually a Russian improvised (mine thrower) as described by the designer, a Lieutenant of the fleet. N.Podgursky. Marines under his command intrenched close to the Japanese redoubt Kumirnenskogo during the Russo-Japanese War took several standard torpedo tubes and fitted them onto a wooden base allowing it to be used on land. Acordingly one was captured during a counter attack by the Japanese.

This is bascially all I have on this interesting improvised piece.  

 Calibre 254mm

Weight 74kg

It could fire a torpedo 200 meters I hope this helps.

 All the best Tim R.



-- Edited by Tim R on Sunday 24th of July 2011 09:44:06 PM



-- Edited by Tim R on Sunday 24th of July 2011 09:45:00 PM

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Legend

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What a marvellous "steampunk" sort of improvisation. I would expect this in the pages of a Jules Verne story, yet it was real. Thanks for bringing this to attention guys. I never knew there were torpedos that small. I want one. Well, several.

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Legend

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Very interesting 10" does seem small for a whitehead?, theres some references to the land use of torpedos in "Japans Fight for Freedom" H.W. Wilson 1906.... page 1028

"In the works two torpedo-tubes were
found, which must have been taken from the ships, and
which had been used to fire the heads of Whiteheads at
the Japanese. The torpedoes do not appear to have
exploded, and the Russians must have been disappointed
with their new weapon, as they do not .seem to have
tried the experiment of using it again. In front of
the Swishiying works were also found six naval contact
mines buried in the earth , these again did no harm
whatever to the Japanese, though wild tales appeared
in the Russian press of whole regiments having been
blown into eternity by them."

and  in "The Great Siege  the investment and fall of Port Arthur" B. W. NORREGAARD(1906) pg 171

"That fish-torpedoes should be used on land is a
thing which probably few people would dream of,
but the Russians have evidently thought other-
wise , for at the said defence works no less than
eight torpedoes were found. "

At the cost of about 1000 pounds each an expensive improvisation...

There also some detail on grenades and wooden mortars in that book, both are available as PDFs on the internet archive as well as many others...

Cheerswink

 



-- Edited by Ironsides on Monday 25th of July 2011 10:57:12 AM

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Colonel

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Tks Tim R,

On internet I've read that in "Napoleonic" armies they used "rockets", they even had a "Rocket Corps" and later (late 19th century) they were used at least in Africa (see picture), did they were used in trenchwarfare too?

DJ

fusée allemande 1890.jpg

 



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Hero

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Thanks Ironsides Interesting information, it seems that the Japanese had there own opinion concerning there counter parts rather unique improvised artillery (sort of ) I believe the Russians thought differently. I would like to no the worthiness of the wooden mortars. All the Best Tim R.

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Legend

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Hi Tim heres whats in the books theres probarbly more...

dynamite bombs were used

"As the hand grenades proved so efficacious it
was natural that both parties should wish to
extend their sphere of action to longer ranges,
and consequently the Russians first, and the
Japanese shortly afterwards, constructed wooden
mortars, from which the bombs could be thrown
distances up to a couple of hundred yards. The
Japanese mortars were constructed of two half-

cylindrical pieces of wood of about one and a half ins. thick-
ness, held together by strong bamboo hoops, so
as to form a barrel about 2 ft. 2 ins. long, with
an inner diameter of about 5 ins. The barrel was
fixed to a wooden bedplate, at a constant angle of
45 degrees, and the different ranges between 50
and 200 yards were obtained by changing the
weight of the powder charges by which they were
fired."

it seems to have been a regular thing to place them in the front line in saps nearest the forts..

and the russians used theirs to harass the japanese sappers or attackers

"It goes without saying that the Russians had
not allowed the Japanese to carry out these works
undisturbed. Besides their ordinary means of
harassing their enemies, surprise parties and
sorties, shelling, sniping, and throwing of dyna-
mite bombs from their small mortarsthey had
invented a new device for impeding the progress
of the sapping works."

"On the morning of the 31st, a force of about
eighty men was sent across and succeeded in
reaching the parapet, where half of the men at
once prepared to entrench themselves, while the
other half kept the Russians at bay till the trench
was completed. This force met a very tragic fate.
The Russians brought a mountain gun into their
caponier gallery and shelled the bomb-proof pas-
sage across the moat to pieces, setting fire to the
timber and the bags, thus cutting off the little
party's retreat. On the parapet the men had
dynamite bombs fired at them from small mortars,
and were constantly attacked by the Russian
infantry. To recross the moat was out of the
question ; the few who tried were instantly killed
by the Russian sharpshooters, or by the machine
guns down in the caponiers. To bring up
supports was also impossible."

"While the operations against Sungshuh and
Erhlung forts were proceeding as described, the
sappers of the 11 th Division were slowly carrying
saps up towards the high East Kikuan fort. It
had been very difficult work. The higher they
progressed, the steeper became the hill, and the
more difficult was it to guard their men against
the shells and dynamite bombs thrown from the
small mortars."

from Wilson

"The dynamite bombs were of all devices the most terrible ; where they did not kill they inflicted appalling wounds, and they rained incessantly upon the Japanese. To throw them the Russians employed small wooden mortars as well as hand-power. Discovering this, the Japanese adopted the same expedient, and employed some hundreds of wooden mortars, which were stationed in the front line. As it was vital to give the troops in the saps protection against these bombs, every kind of device was tried, but finally nets of spring wire, like wire-mattresses, were placed to cover the workers. From these the Russian bombs rebounded and exploded without effect. But in the hand-to-hand encounters such contrivances could not be used, and the slaughter was then appalling. Few on either side came out alive from such affairs ; when the smoke of the bombs lifted it disclosed a sea of human wrecks
swimming in blood."

Very effective I think...

Cheers



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Hero

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Thank You.. Very interesting... I appreciate it. All the best Tim R.

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Colonel

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Tks all for the information and Pic's

DJ



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Legend

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"A party of us visited the camps about li miles beyond the
naval batteries. There were three 4-gun field howitzer batteries
down in the hollow, and further on an engineer company of the
reserve brigade of the 1st Division. Here we were shown a
torpedo that was found inside Fort 203-Metre Hill and also a
number of Russian hand-grenades. The employment of these
somewhat antiquated instruments of war has been a marked
feature in the assault and defence of the various works round
Port Arthur. Both Russians and Japanese have made up large
numbers of them, and their moral effect is said to be very great."

"A noteworthy feature of this attack was the large use made
by the Japanese of bombs fired from the advanced parallels out
of specially constructed wooden grenade mortars. The pro-
jectile is simply a tin cylinder 6 inches in length and 5 inches
in diameter filled with some sort of explosive. There is a piece
of fuze (4^ inches long) attached to the cylinder, one inch of
which is exposed, and is lighted when the gun is fired. A few
shrapnel bullets are packed into the cylinder to fill up interstices
and give the requisite weight. The whole projectile weighs
4i lbs. The propelling charge is ordinary black powder made
up in five difierent charges, according to range. The extreme
range is 400 yards ; the most favourable one 300 yards. The
practice made with these bombs seemed somewhat erratic, but
they exploded with very gi'eat violence, and their moral eftect
must be considerable, while their manufacture is cheap and
easy."

"I have not as yet had an opportunity of seeing any of the
Japanese bombs, but the Russians are of two kindsone
weighing about 10 lbs. (globular), the other weighing about 7 lbs

in the form of a small shell. Both of them have a length of
ordinary Bickford fuze (about 8 inches) attached through an
aperture in the shell. We met here a German-speaking soldier
of the engineer company, who told us that the men of the
company were on duty at the sap-head every other night, and
that every night four or five men were hit."

 

From "The Russo-Japanese war (1908) reports from british officers attached to russian and japanese forces in the field Vol II"

All three Volumes are available to download here and are searchable by key word

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=publisher%3A%22London+%3A+%5BAuthority%5D%22

Cheerssmile



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