Landships II

Date: Oct 23, 2005

Question about Ehrhardt in Polish service

Date: Oct 24, 2005

Hello Michel The first Ehrhardt M17 the Polish used was relieved from the Germans on February 7, 1919 on a highway in northern Poland by an insurgent company of the former German Weilkopolski {Greater Polish} forces.The Ehrhardt was incorperated into the Colonel Grudzielski Platoon, formed on March 19, 1919 with the 15th rifle division and by September 1920, the 2nd Armored Car Division. The First Ehrhardt was named Colonel Grudzielski {Pulkownik Kazimierz Grudzielski}.

A second Ehrhardt M17 was captured during the Wielkopolski uprising in 1919. I have no data on a Polish name it was given.

I have attached three pictures, one is {Colonel Grudzielski}, I belive the other is the unknown Polish Ehrhardt.You may have these pictures, but for the benefit of others, I hope they are useful.

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/ww1nsew/ehrhardt_polish13.jpg

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/ww1nsew/ehrhardt_polish2.jpg

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/ww1nsew/ehrhardt_pol.jpg

As for the painting scheme: The majority of Polish Armored Cars were left in the paint scheme of their former owners. From my records, the Ehrhardt's were left the standard german (feldgrau), They were renamed, and a red/white sheild was painted

I Hope this Helps.

All the Best

Tim R.

Date: Oct 24, 2005

Tim! You are such an asset!

/PK

Date: Oct 24, 2005

Thanks Tim, that's valuable info for me. The pictures are great too. I had noticed the text on the bonnet already on another photo, and thought it mentioned the car's name, but on your picture it seems something else is written
Also, it looks as if a Polish eagle is painted on the turret; or is that 'wishful looking'?
Anyhow, I can start painting now.

All the best,
Michel.

Date: Oct 24, 2005

Hello Michel

I am glad I could help. I have attached two pictures; one is an enlarged turret shot of {Pulkownik Kazimierz Grudzielski}. You are correct in your observation; it is the Polish National Eagle symbol. It is unusual to see that symbol on early Polish Armoured Cars. They did use the two colored shield extensively {Red/White} on almost every captured, and home built armoured vehicle

1.Enlarged Grudzielski Turret:

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/ww1nsew/polishEsym.jpg

2.National Polish Eagle Symbol:

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/ww1nsew/eaglenew.gif

3. Two colored shield {Red/White}:

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/ww1nsew/ford_ftb.jpg

All the Best

Tim Rigsby

Date: Oct 25, 2005

And I thank you again for a helping hand!

Michel.

PS
I found some pics of two improvised armoured vehicles from the Polish independence fights, showing the Polish eagle. Here's the Kresowiec:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/doedelzakken/tanks/kresowiec.jpg

and here's the Pilsudski Tank (armoured car):
http://home.wanadoo.nl/doedelzakken/tanks/pilsudski%20tank.jpg
(would love to see a model of these monsters!)

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Hello Michel

The first Armoured Car {Kresowiec} was designed around of all things an old Stanley Steamer. It was a very odd design. And an equally rare picture.

The second picture is always captioned as a Tank or Armoured Tank etc.; it actually is an armoured Car. Built on a truck frame, when I get home, I will post the exact vehicle it was built on. Some people claim this vehicle was used at the Battle for Warsaw during WW2, I have a very good friend from Poland that says differently, and he is an expert on the subject.

I will get back to you on the subject. You also need to check out the threat on this forum about the Polish A7V. Very interesting.

All the Best

Tim R.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

Hello Michel

I have not located the material on the improvised {Pilsudski Tank} tank yet, I will continue looking for it. I have though found a picture of the Improvised Armoured Car {KORFANTY} used during the Silesian Uprising. It may be of some interests to you.

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/ww1nsew/Armoured_Car_Korfanty_1920.jpg

A little History-{The Silesian Uprisings (Polish: Powstania śląskie) was a series of three military insurrections (1919-1921) of the Polish people in the Upper Silesia region against the German/Prussian forces in order to force them out the region and join it with Poland, that regained her independence after World War I}

All the Best

Tim R.

Date: Nov 4, 2005

The Ehrhardt seen at the field service is "Gorny Slask - Alsacja", the name was written in white handwriting on the motor bonnet. There are skulls and cross bones on the front and rear flank. On the turret there is another painting, but it's difficult to say whether it's just an overpainted Iron Cross or something more elaborate.
The vehicle was used in the 1921 (third) upper Silesian rebellion. Its commander was a certain Ensign Forestier. This is a French name and also explains the name of the Ehrhardt which is in English "Upper Silesia - Alsace", indicating that for the Poles Upper Silesia is something like the Alsace for the French (which is factual rubbish but good propaganda).
The vehicle may have come from French stocks (either handed over by the Germans following the armistice or actually confiscated by the Allied Military Control Commission).