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Post Info TOPIC: Beute Mk IV at Niergnies.


Sergeant

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Beute Mk IV at Niergnies.
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In its latest issue, the french magazine "Tranchées" deals with the tank battle at Niergnies (Cambrai), on october 8th 1918. 

Does anyone have informations (names...) of the four Beute Mark IV of Panzerwagen Abteilung Koch II, involved in the fighting (3 females and 1 male) ? Thanx, Chris.



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"We're forgetting-machines. Men are things that think a little but chiefly forget. That's what we are." - Henri Barbusse, "Under Fire" (1916).



Legend

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Rainer Strasheim gives the tank numbers in the Niergnies action in his book on Beute-Tanks Vol.2 (Tankograd). The Niergnies action was conducted by a supplemented Abteilung 15 - the remaining tanks of Abt.11 were merged with Abt.15 prior to the action.

The "names" of the tanks aren't recorded but for what it's worth the recorded tank numbers (Wagen) are 218, 219 (Male) and 134, 138 and possibly 136 (from Abt.11) (Female).

Regards,

Charlie



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Sergeant

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Thank you very much Charlie !



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"We're forgetting-machines. Men are things that think a little but chiefly forget. That's what we are." - Henri Barbusse, "Under Fire" (1916).



Corporal

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I've decided to "refresh" the topic, instead of creating a new one.

I'm also very interested in that particular episode of tank warfare, but I know very little about it. Unfortunaletly, "Beute-Tanks vol 2" is out of my reach by now, even though I know it's value... A shame. But back to the point!

I've met with at least three versions about the casualties of German and English side in that battle, and the outcome. I wonder if we have some reliable sources about the outcome of battle?



-- Edited by Nameless Eye on Saturday 31st of January 2015 07:49:16 AM

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Commander in Chief

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So, what exactly do you want to know?



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MZ


Corporal

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I'm sorry for the long time to reply!

First of all, I would wish to know the number of the tanks involved by both sides.

Secondly, I know this battle from two book sources, but they're extremelly different when it comes to the casualties of the Germans. In first book, English to German lossess ratio is 2:7, in second 4:5.

Last but not least - the usage of Mauser T-Gewehr by Entente's troops during this fight... Was it a desperate action, or a certain unit was equipped with the looted weapons before the battle?

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Commander in Chief

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Okay, this is Niergnies only, not Séranvillers.

Participants

Abt. 15 : Wagen 218, Wagen 219, Wagen 134, Wagen 138, reinforced by two tanks from Abt. 11 (most probably both females); six tanks in all.

A Coy, 12th Tk Bn: L.9, L.12, L.16 (males) and L.8 female. C Coy, 12 TkBn: L.34 (female); five tanks in all.

Casualties

Abt. 15: Wagen 219, Abt. 11: Lt Semmler's tank (female); two tanks in all.

A Coy, 12th Tk Bn: all four tanks (abandoned by their crews; L.12 and L.16 both hit twice by enemy fire)

T-Gewehre

were used by the female German tanks. OffzStv Peterdorf (Wagen 134) reported firing 10 rounds on the British tanks, no confirmation about any success. The only documented use of T-Gewehre by German tanks.



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