Landships II

Tankcommander · Colonel

Barbed wire destroyer canon ??

Rectalgia · Legend

An early stage in the evolving "arms race" between obstacle and clearance technology, I would guess. Straight barbed wire gave way to coiled, mild steel gave way to tempered, anchoring methods were improved. When I was a sapper (so many years ago!) we were trained to construct Dannert wire barriers that would (it was alleged) halt a tank. Well, not all tanks probably, the Soviet T34 was the benchmark at that time, though a little obsolete even then - but presumably that was the target-level vehicle.

I think it is feasible that the grapnel, pulled back with manpower, would have been effective in the early part of the war. Towards the end, I doubt it, even with a powered winch for retrieval - and anyway the more effective opposing use of mortars and artillery would make it suicidal - I doubt they would try to fire the hook further than 200-300 metres, maybe less. This device would have "raised the hurdle" in the evolution of fortifications and entanglements, in wartime that evolution is very rapid. All of which is flying by the seat of my pants. No evidence to support any of this, just opinion and a little experience.

ALVF · Major

Hello,

This is one of a numerous trials made for destroying barbed wire:

-the gun is the very old "canon de 4 ray� de montagne mod�le 1859".
-the mounting is more "modern", it is the "aff�t de canon de d�barquement mod�le 1879" (the gun is normally a breech loading "canon de 65 mm de d�barquement mod�le 1879" used by "compagnies de d�barquement" (companies of landing troops ashore) of the cruisers and battleships since 1880 years).
This strange combination of "canon de 4 ray� de montagne sur aff�t de d�barquement" was used by "artillerie de marine" during Indochina's campaigns in north Tonkin in 1884 just before the much more modern "canon de montagne de 80 mm mod�le 1878" came from France during the short french-china War in 1883-1884 years.
In 1914-1915, testing was made to fire anchors and grapnels against barbed wire and a "treuil de mine" (mine winch) was used for snatching the barbed wire.The trials were of course most disappointing!
Guns of 65 mm and 90 mm mod�le 1879 on "aff�t de d�barquement" were also tried with same results.
Yours sincerely,
Guy Fran�ois.

Tankcommander · Colonel

Rectalgia,

Tks for tactical information, You're right, years ago as young tankcommander�I drove (tried) to drive trough a single concertina (roll of barbed wire) because I thought we were the "Lords of the battlefield", after a few hundred meters I had to stop. After half a day and a full night of working (breaking tracks, cut wire,...) we could drive further. I've never done it again. Tank can even be immobilised by wet gras (hill). The tanks was Leopard 1 (German stuff and not so bad at all :)

ALVF,

Thank You for technical info, still wondering how You guys all know it, You must have a huge database and a big head (because of the brains inside it) to remember all You have seen somewhere or read in an almost unknown book.

Tks,

DJ

ALVF · Major

Hello "Tankcommander"!

The answer is quite simple: since 40 years, I have bought many french artillery books of the period 1750 to 1940, they are very numerous because french artillery was a main branch of french Army in these years.Also, the books are very well illustrated in these old time.Unfortunately, the number of copies was weak and few are now in the "web sites", so the french artillery is not well known outside (and inside!) France!
Also, french artillery military archivs are very rich and preserved.
Yours sincerely,
Guy Fran�ois.