Landships II

We've discussed the captured Mk Vs, Berlin, etc a couple of times, but I haven't come across this before. I've only ever seen a cropped version of the picture below, and it's usually described as a Mk V captured in WWII. In this version you can see that there are two. Where would two Mk Vs have been captured together? Are these the two that ended up in Berlin?

Sorry if it's not new. Might be one for Gwyn.

These French vehicles are Mk.V*; the two tanks seen in the Lustgarten are normal Mk.Vs.

In the left photo, the one with the tank piled with sandbags, what's that lying on the ground in front to the left? And is that dozer behind the tank a FT-17 dozer by any chance? Just wondering ...

Thank you, Citizens. Pic of Mk V outside Smolensk Cathedral half-way down here

Ta also for pics of V*, which are new to me. They clearly weren't scrapped after the Geneva Conference. Somewhere I posted some pics of one that had been converted (sort of) for mineclearing.

OK, since my name got mentioned in post No. 1 I'll tell you what I know.

In fact, elbavaro got it right. The two Mark Vs captured by the Russians in Berlin are the same two Mark Vs as those captured by the Germans in Smolensk. One of the tanks in Smolensk are a Mark V Composite which has four key identification points:
1. The Male sponson is on the left and the Female on the right (some Composites are the other way around).
2. The Female sponson is installed back to front. This is only apparent from a top view or from a good side view. Again, this is not unique to this Composite.
3. It has the remains of a Red Army tactical mark just forward of the female sponson.
4. The serial number is 9146.

The other Smolensk tank is to my knowledge unique. It is a Female Mark V and these are very rare in Russia. It is also the only Mark V Female I know of that the Wehrmacht captured, and to make it more unusual still, it is the only Beute Mark V I know of that had the Russian amoeba camouflage.

One of the tanks in Berlin, is a Mark V Composite with a left hand Male sponson and the remains of the number 9146 can be seen in at least one photo. The other, thoroughly trashed by the time the war ended, is a Female with amoeba camouflage.

The tank 9146 is the tank whose long history David Fletcher outlines in the conclusion of his Osprey on the Mark V, at my suggestion (which is probably why David kindly added my name to the acknowledgements), although I would have preferred him not to claim it was probably the only Mark V to fall into German hands - it certainly wasn't.

Gwyn

-- Edited by Gwyn Evans on Saturday 25th of February 2012 10:02:55 PM

The photo in post No.1 shows two Mark V* of the French Army. They have been painted in what I believe to be a paint scheme designed for hard targets, but obviously were captured before the French moved them to the firing range.

Gwyn

James H wrote:

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Gwyn Evans wrote:

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The photo in post No.1 shows two Mark V* of the French Army. 

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Are you sure, Gwyn? They look like Mk V to me.

There are a few pics here http://www.chars-francais.net/new/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11&Itemid=37 that need a bit of explaining. I think some shouldn't be there at all, but the eighth picture (captioned No. 10) looks as if it's of the Smolensk Mk Vs.

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I've taken a closer look and come to the conclusion you're right.  Obviously you can't see much of the tank behind, but the tank in front is a Mark V.  That leaves me a bit stumped as to location, because I'm only aware of the Wehrmacht encountering Mark Vs in Russia and (what are now) the Baltic States.  I have seen a similar photo before (which infuriatingly I can't put my mits on at the moment).

Yes, the photo on chars-francais you mention does show the two tanks at Smolensk. (In fact it's the photo that Lincoln tanker has just posted...)

Gwyn

 

-- Edited by Gwyn Evans on Sunday 26th of February 2012 08:09:21 PM

A bit of a change of tack, but since people are discussing hermaphrodites/composites, has anyone anything to make of this suggestion:
a previous thread discussed the handling qualities of tanks with asymmetric weight distribution, reckoning that they veer to one side; do you think a hermaphrodite would steer better if fitted with one 20.5inch track and one 26.5inch track, to distribute the extra half-ton or so hanging off one side? Or is 5mph (4.6 for the hair-splitting) too slow to make a difference?

This is amazing. It seems everybody and his dog had their picture taken with the Smolensk tanks, but I never knew these are the very tanks seen on the Berlin 1945 images. Outstanding research results. Much appreciated.

No, the Smolensk/Berlin Mark Vs are not the same ones as those preserved in Lugansk. I don't know anything of two more in a scrapyard. Do you have any more information?

Gwyn

Well ... "storage" could be true. Sovjets kept a lot of wepaons in storage.

For example: It has been around 1995 when Russia sold a lot of WW2 weapons to collectors (lend/lease weapons and captured weapons). All of them had been a kind of reserve. They kept carbines till that day for a possible ermegency use in the future! Why not the same with WW1 tanks too until 1940?

Regarding the WW1 tanks: it was just a thought about it.

Regarding storage: Beleave it or not - Russians kept old weapons in storage - long term! I bought a rifle (German Karabiner 98k) in 1995. It came directly from a russian storage into the German market. At that time Russia dissolved a lot of their "tactical storages". That's the reason why K98k prices in the mid 1990's were very very low. Only an example!

Both tanks are composites. One of them has unusual rear door - two flaps in place of machine-gun's ball.

I don't know, does it made on factory, or result of repairing during the service, or installed later on memorial.

Here aree photos from Lugansk restoring.

http://englishrussia.com/2009/10/02/the-refurbished-tanks/ 

Yes thanks Aleksandr. First good photos of the Rostov tanks I've had. Learn something new every day...

Gwyn

Another photo of our Berlin MkV Composite.

Another Armour Journal photo.

If I might:

Die Trümmer = ruins. Den Trümmern is dative plural because the preposition aus always invokes the dative case. The singular is das Trumm, but the plural has a rather more complex meaning.

Gern geschehen.