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Post Info TOPIC: British Mack Bulldog
Rob


Legend

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British Mack Bulldog
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I know this one's been covered before, especially here - http://landships.activeboard.com/t41636341/mack-ac-bulldog/ - but has anyone had any luck finding proof, photographic or otherwise, of Mack Bulldog's being used by BRITISH forces in WW1? It's an oft-quoted legend (myth?) that it was the British soldiers that named the Mack the 'Bulldog' owing to it's strengths in use, and supposedly the British used 2000 or so of them - this forum manages to find images of much, much rarer softskins with ease, so the lack of proof of the British Bulldog seems to speak volumes



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Brigadier

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That is an excellent question. In fact i am putting together a future article for Military Machines International on Mack bulldogs and posing the same question, which i think i can now answer. I do have two photos of British army Mack bulldogs. One a tanker, the other a GS, but they appear to be one of the least common British lorries of the Great War. Especially strange when Mack claims they were such a major provider of trucks to the allies during the war. Maybe to the Americans and French but certainly not the British.

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Colonel

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Rob, GWT, others too of course,

Ref the link of Rob, I had an respond of MACK Trucks (Allentown) on March 2010:

Four sample pages of the sales chassis register for AC 5 1/2 T delivered to US Governement in 1917.

First 150 AC Mil Trucks were purchased by British early 1917, Mack don't know where they served.

I will try to scan all documents (exempt the copies of the old catalogues) and put them on this forum not earlier than Monday 21 May (No scan at home)

DJ

 



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Brigadier

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That would be useful. I believe that the British only received those 150 Mack trucks which partly explains why there are so few photos of them.

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Rob


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Thanks chaps - so the 'Bulldog' nickname - typical marketing lies? I'd be very interested in seeing those images if possible GWT

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Hero

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Thanks in advance for posting! I tried to make a British Mack, just "guessing" what colour they might have had!



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Legend

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Diego, is that khaki or does it just look that colour in photos? I'm not certain, but think British Macks would probably be some shade of green; as far as I can tell green was the colour used for trucks in the BEF, with only heavy tanks being painted khaki - presumably because other vehicles operated behind the lines where there was a bit more greenery left intact.

Maybe others will have a better idea if this is correct.

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Hero

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It's a sort of greenish khaki, but I can't recall exactly why I chose this over more green hues (PC10 for British aircraft of the era had variations from chocolate brown to a sort of OD green). Probably I took this colour because I've seen that some ancillary equipment for aerodromes was painted khaki, and thus, following the same line of thought...

As you see, I haven't applied any special markings to this truck, as I'm not sure if I'll ever finish my aerodrome diorama...

I seem not to have shot this finished model outdoors. Here's a couple from the build process...

D.



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Hero

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Forgot to tell that I also discarded the tank from the original model and replaced it by a drop side rear.


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Legend

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d_fernetti wrote:

Yes, or what's left of it!


 Of course! It's otońo down there - easy to forget that the other hemisphere is getting colder and darker; here in Britain it's much brighter, if not particularly warm.

Just realised you probably meant what's left of the kit! I suppose both answers apply smile

 

You may have to make an effort to finish your diorama, Diego - it might be the nearest we get to photos of a Mack in British service wink



-- Edited by TinCanTadpole on Saturday 19th of May 2012 02:28:13 AM

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Legend

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Ah, that's better - natural light makes a real difference. 1/72 scale RPM kit?

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Hero

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Yes, or what's left of it!

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Hero

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Yes, I meant "wht's left of the kit", as I've abused of those parts almost beyond recognition. I finished the model about 2 years ago, I guess that by this time of the year as well according to the dating of the pictures. And we're well into Autumn here, and we get beautiful overcast, luminous skies for outdoor photography of miniatures. The downside? We're having much shorter days!
The aerodrome diorama is something that shall wait for a good while yet... still have to decide on how to make suitable tent hangars...
D.

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Colonel

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Hi,

As promised a few days ago, ... Sorry for the bad pictures but I'm not a photograph. Making a scan was to big to post it.

DJ

DSCN0217.JPG

DSCN0218.JPG

DSCN0219.JPG

DSCN0220.JPG

DSCN0221.JPG

DSCN0222.JPG



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Legend

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It may not help us in the quest for proof of British service, but there's some interesting info in there on wheel sizes and wheelbases; thanks DJ.

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Brigadier

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This is very interesting. Thank you for posting it. Would you agree that this information supports the theory that the British War Department bought just those 150 Macks. I am wondering if there were any further contracts for the WD, but surely this explains why we dont see any pictures of them.
Tim



-- Edited by Great War Truck on Wednesday 23rd of May 2012 07:49:09 AM

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Legend

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Ah, so it was three sections towed one at a time, rather than all three sections linked as a train. Okay, that's easier to grasp.

I've seen a photo of the sub on display in Central Park - I think it was on Wikipedia, so I'll have a look.

 

Quick search reveals this:

UC5

Not sure if it's the one I had in mind - I think there's one at an angle, showing the truck still hitched up (or nearby at least), but I may be wrong.



-- Edited by TinCanTadpole on Wednesday 23rd of May 2012 05:23:46 PM

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Legend

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Found it, it was on Wikipedia:

UC5 with Mack

And a close up amidships



-- Edited by TinCanTadpole on Wednesday 23rd of May 2012 05:51:37 PM

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Legend

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The legend that Brit soldiers supplied the 'Bulldog' nickname might not necessarily be marketing hype; even if the BEF received only 150 Macks as seems likely, it's still enough trucks to impress the troops using them.

This however, begs the question of why so few would be ordered by the War Department. One can only wonder whether unit cost, or shipping inconvenience/cost, or the risk of losing trucks when the U-boat menace was great lead to alternatives being chosen?

Personally I'm impressed by the photo of a Mack used to tow captured coastal submarine UC5 through Manhattan to go on display in Central Park in 1918; it appears that a single truck was used to tow a u-boat over 100 ft long - it must have been a strong truck, especially given the lack of 4WD.


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Hero

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Well, not really towing an entire submarine... just the front end in this picture. Anyway this is a incredible feat! Wonder if someone has found a good picture of the submarine as displayed in Central Park.



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Hero

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Bet that after it was displayed that damned sub ended up being all leaky.

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Brigadier

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i can possiblly answer one of those questions. When the US joined WW1 the US Government banned the export of certain types of lorry which they wanted to equip their own army with. Exports of Packard were definitely stopped. I suspect that Mack went the same way. Worthy of more research i think.

Tim

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Brigadier

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Here is one. 149 more to find



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Rob


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Ah! Wonderful. The British style cab will be interesting to scratchbuild

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Legend

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Fortunately RPM offer early style Macks like this one, so the hood/bonnet doesn't need to be scratchbuilt.

Thanks for the photo and the suggestion, GWT - it makes a lot of sense.

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Legend

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Other radiator-behind-engine vehicles like Renaults and Siddeley-Deasys seem to have hinged at the top back near the radiator. I'd guess it was the same for Macks, as it would be easier to access the engine that way, and there would be no potential design problem with making sure the free end of the hood/bonnet cleared the radiator as it described an arc.

 

PDA - I wouldn't worry about hijacking the thread, it's a useful question and isn't deviating from Macks.



-- Edited by TinCanTadpole on Thursday 24th of May 2012 12:53:32 PM

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Hero

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Makes me want to go and add the canvas top to my plain Mack.

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PDA


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Without wishing to hijack this thread, I have a question about this truck.

How did the bonnet (hood) open? Was it propped up, or removed entirely? Where did it hinge?

TIA, and apologies to Rob for the minor hijack smile



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Hero

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It was hinged at the back, upper edge. Check http://www.galthistory.org/carshow/2006car/1925_MACK_Bulldog.jpg

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Brigadier

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I made some enquiries with the Mack museum and received a ton of information back. There was a massive crash as the parcel fell through my letterbox. Gave the dog quite a suprise. Anyway, I have gone through it and there is no definitive answer. All of the military sales were recorded as being made to Government Compound in Harrison or "56th street Pier in New York" "where the US Government decided to ship them". I do not believe that the US Gvt were directly involved in the purchase of Macks for the British WD and as all the New York Macks were sent there after the US had declared war on Germany i believe these were all destined to the AEF. No definite evidence that more than 150 were ever purchased by the WD.

Now, what shall i do with 80 pages of order book and chassis numbers. Another ring binder for the shelf i feel.
Tim

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Legend

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Just came across this again nothing new to add on Brit Macks, but I did come across a couple of images of US Forestry Macks 20th Engineers:

http://www.blurb.com/books/2148467-20th-engineers-in-france

 no page nos? about midway through a flatbed Mack carrying a stack of sawn planks, No US3358 and has wooden wheels.... and a few pages later the front of a second Mack(or possibly the same)... The Engineer who took the pics is Arthur Sequin....

 

Cheerswink



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