Landships II

Date: Dec 13, 2005

pre-1930s AFV demo

Centurion · Legend

Where is Nido? what is the Curonian Spit?

Geographically Challenged

Treadhead · Major

.....I'm not sure about that "Nido" thing, but the Curonian 'Spit' sounds gross....

just kiddin' ya Obscurata......must say I'm curious as well, and apologise for not being 'in-the-know' on this one.....

Tread.

Date: Dec 13, 2005

The location of the demonstration is in the most picturesque portion of Lithuania. Nida is a wonderful town that I reside in part of the year which is on a peninsula called the Curonian Spit which borders the Kaliningrad region of Russia as well as the Baltic Sea.

We are going to have several fully functional and restored pre-1930s AFVs (some from WWI) as well as a couple of replicas built from original blueprints. No weapons fire will occur obviously but other then that everything will be very authentic.

If anyone wants details just ask.

Obscurata

Vilkata · Brigadier

The Curonian Spit looks like a very beautiful place. Are you going to drive the AFVs up those 60 meter sand dunes? The biggest in europe I hear!

You have to take lots and lots of pictures of the AFVs! I know you don't have a scanner, but maybe you could mail a set of the developed photos to one of us, and we could scan them, and put them online for us all to enjoy. We would all love to see these vehicles.

Ever find another copy of that book by 'Georgii Narochnitskaya' for me buddy?

Be sure to have tons and tons of fun!

---Vil.

Date: Dec 13, 2005

Hello chum,

I don�t own a camera but I think I�ll have to buy one for this event. As it so happens I did find a crate of the Narochnitskaya books (50 copies) and while most have slight water damage they are still quite readable and if the daughter is willing to part with them I�ll sell them here at cost.

As to the demo we�ll be driving the AFVs around in a field owned by a friend so we�ll not be on beach except for the evening meal.

If anyone needs more info just let me know.

Vilkata · Brigadier

You can just buy a couple disposable cameras. Nida is a touristy vacation town, so I am sure you can find lots and lots of disposable cameras. I would reccomend getting a few, and having two batches of the film developed. I mean, if you would like to send a copy of them to a friend so they could be posted online, that is.

Water dammaged or not, I would absolutely love one of those books, and I would happily pay his daughter for one!

Say, which AFVs are going to be there? Or have you not recieved a complete list? While I dont think any other forum members live near Lithuania, I would still be interested in knowing which vehicles are attending. Will the Krupp Light Tank that your friend was building be there?

---Vil.

-- Edited by Vilkata at 22:21, 2005-12-13

Date: Dec 13, 2005

So far, the line up is: Tatra Typ 18, WZ. 29 "Ursus", Carden Lloyd Mk IV and a twin turret Vickers Mk.A, a running but not complete Kraftprotze (replica), a running but not complete Hessen-Cassel replica, a replica of a 1920 field built Berna 5 ton chassis with armored body, a Latil TAR, a Ford 3 ton (replica), Trubia Serie A replica, a Seabrook Armored Car ( I can�t recall the model off hand), and a replica Pierce Arrow/Allen armored car. Some other stuff may show up the folks organizing it don�t have any conformation that I know of yet. This event is not being put up by me but rather some friends that are far better mechanics/fabricators then I. So I�m just passing on the word here as I think the people here are into this sort of thing.

The book cache was just dug out very recently so I�m not sure what the owners intentions are but I assure you that I�ll get you one if at all possible.

Beyond that, I am sure that a visual record of the event will be made and any photos I take will be with a real camera and not one of those cardboard monstrosities.

Anyway, the big documents project I told you about has been turned over to people more qualified then I but I still try to keep abreast of what�s going on.

Date: Dec 16, 2005

The organizers of the demonstration have been talking at length about having a similar event in America. They seem to believe that it will be quite popular as a result of the American love of militaria, the shear size of the country and the enthusiasm shown for war in general. Having lived in the states for a while it seems to me that outside of WWII no real interest in military history exists in the states. I�d also noted very little interest expressed in the event this thread was meant to cover so I�m not convinced an American demonstration is such a great idea.

In any case, it seems like this forum consists primarily of American military enthusiasts with a far better grasp of what appeals to Americans then I. As a result, I hope I can get a bit of feedback.

Vilkata · Brigadier

You are right...

America in generall just isn't that interested in AFVs. And, even if they are, they are interested in WWII vehicles, or modern vehicles. There are hundreds if not thousands of forums about WWII vehicles, and modern military vehicles. This forum right here is the only WWI vehicle forum I know about.

I definitely think that shipping all those AFVs over here, setting up a display, all of that, would end up costing your friends a lot of money, and they would be very dissapointed by the experience.

Of course, thats just what I think! I could be totally wrong.

---Vil.

Matt Heil · Lieutenant

America in generall just isn't that interested in AFVs. And, even if they are, they are interested in WWII vehicles, or modern vehicles. There are hundreds if not thousands of forums about WWII vehicles, and modern military vehicles. This forum right here is the only WWI vehicle forum I know about.

To some degree, Vilkata, you are right. There is a huge focus on WW2, and often to the detriment of other eras. However, you'd be surprised by the number of reenactors for even some of the most obscure events (Polish Hussars of the 17th century, in America? Yep, we got 'em.). We Americans (for whatever reason) love military history, so there are constantly shows of all types. There's a live demonstration of artillery of all eras in Ohio every year, and there are reenactors who gladly dress up as French, German and British soldiers of WW1. This is not to mention, of course, the absolutely unreal popularity of American Civil War reenactments, memorabilia, reproduction, etc., ad infinitum.
I think, given the popularity of military subjects here, that a pre-1930's vehicle show could be a huge hit, especially since it's such a neglected subject. Furthermore, you could almost certainly count on the support of many museums and private collectors who themselves would like a chance to show off thier vehicles.
Anyway, that's just my opinion, and I'd be glad to expound a little more and/or shut up about it if you like.

Matt

SASH155 · Major

I personally would love to see a display of this order, I love antique vehicles of all sorts, especially trucks and buses, but I am also facinated by those powerful specialized artillery tractors like the Latil TAR. I am also interested in practically anything from the interwar period and would love to see the vz.29 armored car and Vickers Six Ton tank. Where I live, the Washington D.C. metro area, would be an ideal location for such a display given the large military and professional community, including think tanks like mine (the "Rentagon", CSIS, Carnegie, Brookings etc...). People interested in military subjects are legion around here, and the Civil War reenactors are all over the place (met a couple of them just a few short weeks ago in fact). I personally know a guy (a former history teacher of mine from boarding school near Nashville, Tennessee) who is an avid and expert French World War One reenactor. His name is L.R. Smith, and he appears in Demaison's and Yves Buffetaut's "Honor Bound: The Chauchat Machine Rifle" from Collector Grade. He owns one of the guns depicted in this book and I once had the honor of firing it (it jumps all over the place). His reenactment unit was in the 1995 Bruce Willis movie "The Twelve Monkeys" (that's one of his fellow reenactors shooting Brucie in the glutus maximus with his Mle.1886/93 Lebel or Mle.1907/15 Mannlicher-Berthier). So bring it on, if its well advertised it should do well, because there are people from all over who no doubt would love to see this, my boss included I'm sure.

28juni14 · Hero

I must agree with the last two entries; re-enacting is quite alive in the USA. (The American War Between the States is the biggest attraction). However, sadly, there is limited historical attraction in anything non-American, and certainly very limited interest for military science in general. I would assume the same could be said for peoples of most countries.

Treadhead · Major

Howdy anonymous,

First, thx for taking the time to expand on your initial post and discribe to us the particulars of this coming event.

It sounds like a thrilling experience and I confess my sincere regret at not being able to attend....

After reading thru some of the responses in this thread I feel I must toss my humble opinion into the mix...as sucinctly as I can

As has already been stated, the American Civil War is at the forefront of attention here in the United States, followed by World War II. I must admit to being quite surprised at the focus the ACW receives from American's, and, even more astonished at the attention the American Civil War gets from outside the U.S.!
This observation is not simply an 'opinion', but based factually upon the fact that I used to fly helo tours of the Gettysburg Battlefield and had the advantage of observing the people who flocked to this town {Gettysburg}, which, other than the battlefield itself, is just a small, lazy, quaint little town....very non discript.
But I was simply amazed at how many people would jump on a plane and fly all the way from places like Germany, Japan, Russia, etc, just to see the Battlefield there in Gettysburg...and you have to remember, ,there is no theme park, carnival, or outwardly 'active' evidence of the battlefield itself...just quiet little niches here and there at strategic points, and unpaved roads that take you here and there...
Of course there's also {for the record} hundred's of cannon's that have been meticulously placed in their historically accurate positions during the engagement, and the cyclorama {or was}....but my point is that thousands upon thousands of people from all over the world flock to this place.

Now that I've broken my promise of being "sucinct", I'd better jump to the more important point I was trying to make...
ADVERTISING!!
That's right. I won't go into my whole speal about the awareness of Airshow's after promoter's finally decided to advertise their show's event dates instead of just pinning paper flyers at ATC traffic bulletin boards, but will suffice to say that if you make the public aware of your show/event, I mean really make them AWARE of it...they will come!
And, as a final note on the subject, the American people have always had a penchant for anything that has a 'touchy - feely' ingredient to it.....

The previous blabbering is just simply my humble Farthing's worth....and for those who are curious {you British friends are exempt

}, a Farthing's worth was about a 1/4 of one cent...

Tread.