Landships II

Centurion · Legend

DeMole was honoured

Roger Todd · Legend

Don't forget too that he was awarded what was a substantial cash payout at the time, far in excess of what he originally asked for.

Tim R · Hero

That great but how about CromptonAny word yet??

All The Best

Tim R.

Roger Todd · Legend

The Commission decided that Crompton and Legros, his assistant, had not invented or discovered 'the special features subsequently featured in the tanks, and we cannot consider their services as of such an exceptional or extraordinary character as could alone justify an award in addition to their agreed salaries' [which had been characterised as 'substantial'].

Nevertheless, at a subsequent hearing they shared an award of �1,550.

Compare this with the �15,000 awarded jointly to Tritton and Wilson, the �987 awarded to de Mole, or the �1,000 awarded to Swinton.

Another unsung figure, or rather pair of figures, hitherto unmentioned on this site (as far as I am aware) yet, arguably, as significant as de Mole or Swinton, maybe even Crompton, are Macfie and Nesfield. It was, after all, as far as I can gather, Macfie who put Crompton, Tritton et al onto caterpillar tracks at a time when they were convinced of the value of the Big Wheel, as well as providing a design with upturned tracks (the only one apart from de Mole's before Mother).

Vilkata · Brigadier

All of this is incredibly interesting. I read an article a while back which seemed to imply the only thing he was paid was the cost he expended building his wooden model of the vehicle. It is really great that he was honored this way!!!

Have you ever noticed that, if you look at his design, and imagine a modern tank turret on top of it, it looks exactly like a genuine modern tank?

Also, I actually think his 'curve-track steering' would have been a novel implementation. Even into WWII tankers were having issues with tank steering, because in order to do a really hard turn, they would have to forcibly brake one track. Doing this over and over and over again would wear out the brake drums, until it could no longer turn at all. For this reason, some WWII tank convoys going up switchbacks in mountains would have to stop, and let another vehicle forcibly haul it around the corner, to save the brakes. This issue would not arrise if the tank simply had curve-track steering. (And the tracks could curve enough for it to make sharp turns). I read all this on an AFV forum, so if it is completely bogus, don't blame me

---Vil.

Roger Todd · Legend

No, you're absolutely right, de Mole's design featured an incredibly ingenious system of 'bowing' the tracks to steer fairly gentle curves, although he also pointed out that for sharper turns one track could be slowed or braked as became normal usage later. I've always rather suspected that it would have been difficult to make it work without an undue level of complexity which might have been undesirable in a practical fighting machine. Nevertheless, it's a pity it wasn't tried, and it might have been made robust enough for battlefield conditions.

Certainly for normal usage it would have saved an awful lot of track wear, but I think the early tank pioneers saw the machine as virtually disposable anyway (hence an early crisis in terms of insufficient spares), thus they didn't really care much about track wear.

Tim R · Hero

Well that�s the pitts, I am a firm Compton Fan, and He was and will ever be a genius to me. As far as Macfie and Nesfield are concerned, I am very interested in them as well; there tank design was quit incredible.

What do you have on them Roger ?. I have only a drawing and a little information from an old magazine article.

All the Best

Tim R.

Tim R · Hero

By the Way Roger,

Welcome aboard Captian!!!!!

All the Best

Tim R.

Roger Todd · Legend

Blimey, I hadn't noticed my promotion!

Rightly, IMHO, David Fletcher and John Glanfield have done an awful lot of work in highlighting dear old Col Crompton's role.

As for Robert Macfie, he was a very spiky character, an engineer, aviator, adventurer, who had seen Holts in the USA before the war, and joined the RNAS armoured car mob at Wormwood Scrubs in 1914. Right from the off he was promoting tracklayers, but as artillery tractors. Soon, however, he began to think of armoured tracked vehicles, and it was he who at the first Landships Committee meeting in February 1915 forcefully put the case for tracks. Crompton had turned up with a briefcase full of big wheel drawings, but he left that day a convinced track man.

In conjunction with the engineer Nesfield (with whom he had a spectacular falling out later), Macfie desgned a really quite advanced machine in mid-1915. I suspect that is what you have drawings of, as I have seen them listed in an old Tankette.

However, I have another reproduction of his drawing which I'll email you direct, as it's a large file, and you can let me know if it's the same.

Centurion · Legend

Roger Todd wrote:

No, you're absolutely right, de Mole's design featured an incredibly ingenious system of 'bowing' the tracks to steer fairly gentle curves, although he also pointed out that for sharper turns one track could be slowed or braked as became normal usage later. I've always rather suspected that it would have been difficult to make it work without an undue level of complexity which might have been undesirable in a practical fighting machine. Nevertheless, it's a pity it wasn't tried, and it might have been made robust enough for battlefield conditions. Certainly for normal usage it would have saved an awful lot of track wear, but I think the early tank pioneers saw the machine as virtually disposable anyway (hence an early crisis in terms of insufficient spares), thus they didn't really care much about track wear.

The novel wire track suspension on the Medium D was specifically designed to bow (see landships by David Fletcher) Tere was a very good article on this tank and its suspension about thirty years ago - if memory serves me in an early Military Modelling. I'll try and dig it out but it won't be quick (one day I must sit down and try and index everything)

Centurion · Legend

Bowing tracks

eugene · Field Marshal

RE: DeMole was honoured

Centurion · Legend

eugene wrote:

I remmember in David F's british tanks 1915-19 some swimming tanks, was DeMole part of tht project, the name of the tank scapes me was it the MK.D only outfitted with some sort of balast tanks? its in his book ill check today

De Mole wasn't part of any of these projects. There were several amphibious tank projects at the time (1918-1922) some of which relied on pontoons or floats attached to the side of the tank.These included the Mark IX Amphibious [Duck] (a Mk IX supply tank with a built up driver/commanders position and tubular floats); the Medium D** (this achieved boyancy by having an extended, mostly empty, hull) and the Light Infantry tank which was designed from the outset to be amphibious. I have picked up an unconfirmed suggestion that a Medium A (Whippet) was experimentaly fitted with pontoons but not necessarily by the British ( a post war expeiment by the Japanese, the Americans?) If anyone can CRUD this story I'd be grateful. The French post WW1 designed some amphibious tanks at least one of which sank on its maiden voyage.