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Post Info TOPIC: Rolls Royce Armoured Car india Pattern


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Rolls Royce Armoured Car india Pattern
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I wonder if anyone can help me please ? my grandfather served in the north west frontier in the 1930's on india pattern armoured cars with 8th Armoured car regiment, i am looking to build an accurate representation of the vehicle he served on, does anyone know if there is a commercially available kit for this A/C ? i have found a crossley A/C kit which is very similar but would reall like a RR. Thanks in Advance.



-- Edited by Crashman on Monday 1st of April 2013 07:46:55 AM

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Major

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Hi, if you're wanting to model the rather nice vehicle in the photograph then that is a Crossley not a Rolls Royce.



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Runflat wrote:

Hi, if you're wanting to model the rather nice vehicle in the photograph then that is a Crossley not a Rolls Royce.


Hi thanks for the reply, i thought it was a crossley, but having looked into it the rolls royce was fitted with this style turret in india and the back modified, and used with 8 & 9 ACR, i was hoping touse a crossley kit but have been told there are differences.



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Sergeant

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It's a shame that a photograph like this should have suffered so much wear and tear so, if you'll forgive me, here's a patched up version with the worst of the damage taken care of. It still needs a fair bit of work though.



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Major

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I'm not convinced the photograph shows a Rolls Royce - other photographs of RRs with the India pattern body show them with different front wings and a high radiator filler neck.

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geod-LA wrote:

It's a shame that a photograph like this should have suffered so much wear and tear so, if you'll forgive me, here's a patched up version with the worst of the damage taken care of. It still needs a fair bit of work though.


Thats Fantastic, thank you smile



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Legend

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Hmm. Looking at BT White's "British Tanks and Fighting Vehicles, 1914-1945", it seems that this body style was used first on 1921 Pattern R-Rs, then Crossley chassis replaced the R-R on the similar 1923 Pattern (change for cost reasons), and later on Chevrolets received this body - albeit on pneumatic tyres, with fuller fenders.

The car pictured will either be 1921 or 1923 Pattern, as the 1925 Pattern apparently had the unditching planks mounted horizontally rather than vertically as shown here.

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I have been in contact with the tank musuem regarding this particular vehicle and had the following reply:

If it was A3578 (Agincourt) it would have been a Crossley, not a Rolls-Royce. The Rolls-Royces had four digit numbers starting A2***. The number would not be painted in an oval, that only applied to cars from Britain. Cars in India had the number, like a registration number at front and back and the only other markings you would expect to find would be the cars name, painted on the sides.

Also the Rolls-Royces only ever served with 9th Armoured Car Company, they could only afford enough of them for one company. All the rest were Crossleys.

If this chap was with 8th Armoured Car Company (Company only, never regiment) he would have been a Crossley driver. The normal colour for Crossleys was a sort of silver grey (like our Crossley/Chevrolet) although some were white for a while. Some were also painted in a two-tone camouflage of green and brown.

The Royal Tank Corps Journal, between the wars, published a list showing where each armoured car company was stationed at a different time they moved about. If this chap is making a model then it would be more significant for him to find the name of the car. I have never seen them published anywhere but if he looks through the photos there might, by chance, be one of A3578 with a name painted on it.

None of these cars had any real history at all. They tended to serve with the Company they were issued to until that company either switched over to light tanks or was disbanded around 1938. After that the surviving cars were passed on to Indian Regiments. However most of the surviving cars were later fitted to Chevrolet chassis (like our exhibit) and some of those were later used by Indian regiments in Iraq and Iran.

i have managed to find a company that sells a 1/56th model of the Crossley so i think i will be ordering this and haing a model bult, thanks for all your help.

Also i do have more pictures of the Armoured cars in India from my grandfathers collection if anyone is interested.



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Sergeant

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Are you familiar with the photographs, apparently posted on Usenet (to abp.military) in 2005, showing (largely) armoured cars on the NW Frontier in the 1930s? They appear to have come from somebody's family album.

One picture is labelled as being of 'Agincourt'after a traffic accidentbut don't get too excited: it is in fact 'Albuera' (A3579). Nevertheless, the pictures may contain helpful reference material for you.

The photos, some 60 in all, are linked from two index pages starting here:

http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/armour/NWFP_30s/index.html



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tfosh

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Re your enquiry

Your granddad usually drove "Agincourt"  and he always maintained they were Rolls Royce cars, I remember him telling me about an incident where he was driving in convoy along a canal bank when he noticed a wheel passing him. It was the wheel off his Car. he ended up in the canal and nearly drowned. Also,riving under a railway bridge, He came upon an Indian cyclist, in the middle of the road and your granddad stuck and killed the unfortunate man. He also told me that the armoured cars were required to " close the road" ie the Kyber pass,every night. they drove up to the Afgan border and nothing was allowed to move in the pass at night. an unfortunate cattle herder was driving his cattle down the pass after curfew and was bombed by the RAF and the cows were splattered all over the sides of the pass. 

Its nice to see my "missing" photos have turned up as I belive these photos have historic value and they should be in Bovingdon museum .

You can see your granddads obituary on the RTR roll of honour



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Legend

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Above apparently REALLY hung up somewhere (I DO check, honest, but this one was invisible to me), just released, bumped now. Thanks Stephen (presumably).

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tfosh crashmans dad

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am seeking info about an incident where a section of armoured cars of 8th(?) armoured car coy (4 cars) were ambushed and wiped out by followers of the Fakir of Impis 'red shirt' cc 1936 Wiristan campagain

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Corporal

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Could it be this one, for which Morton won his MM.

Morton T Web R Newpaper B.jpg

Morton T Web R Newpaper C.jpg

 

Morton T Web R Newpaper F.jpg

 

 

Morton T Web R Newpaper D.jpg

Morton T Web Medals 1 med.jpg



-- Edited by Hardinge on Wednesday 9th of July 2014 11:07:25 PM

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Collector of medals to the Tank Corps
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