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Post Info TOPIC: Bulgarian gun - Krupp or Obuchow?
IrishGunner


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Bulgarian gun - Krupp or Obuchow?
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Based on the photo in Kosar's "Artillerie in 20. Jahrhundert", I first thought this Bulgarian gun is a Obuchow 153mm Cannon M04.  But then I read online that most of Bulgaria's artillery came from Krupp in Germany and this piece could be a Krupp 15cm Kanone M1892.

 

As always, thanks in advance, for the experts' opinions.



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Rick
nebojsa djokic


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I am very sure. Krupp 15 cm Kanone M 1892. You can to see Broadwell wedge breech mechanism with an expanding steel obturation ring.

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CharlieC


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Marco Pellerini's bulgarian.it website says that Krupp delivered 14 15cm M1892 guns to the Bulgarian Army - http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Krupp%20150mm%201892.htm

The images on Marco's are a good match with your image. 

The Broadwell obturator was a circular steel plate inset into the breech block and a soft copper ring sitting in a machined

groove in the barrel. When the gun fires the ring is pushed onto to the steel plate. It was a fairly effective system and

its easy to change the copper ring, unlike the Elswick system which had a copper ring in the breech in front of an

interrupted screw breech.

Regards,

Charlie

 



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IrishGunner


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Gentlemen, thank you for your comments. I consulted bulgarianartillery.it (a great website!) and that is what made me consider the Krupp piece. I just didn't trust myself. Thanks for the confirmation!

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Rick
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I apologize for not well explained. I wanted to tell: You can see the rear of the cannon around the breech distinctive Krupa guns equipped with Broadwell wedge breech mechanism with an expanding steel obturation ring.

Drawing from book: E. MONTHAYE, KRUPP AND DE BANGE, New York 1888.



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Ralph Lovett


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I agree that the gun barrel/breech mechanism resembles that of the German 15cm lg. Kanone 1892 (sometimes called the Ring Cannon) seen in these two webs sites and pages:

http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Krupp%20150mm%201892.htm

http://lovettartillery.com/MAT_15cm_Lange_Kanone_Detail.html

However, notice this is a completely different carriage.  The cheek pieces have sheet metal coming up to the trunnions on the photo posted on Landships, whereas the 15cm lg. K. 92 has cheeks made of bar stock. The sight-mount for indirect and direct fire sight are completely different on the 15cm lg. K. 92. Notice, in fact, there is no indirect fire sight mount at all on the Landships posted photo.  The lg. K. 92s elevation handle goes into a gear box with a square housing, whereas the photo posted on Landships has no square gear box visible at the same point.

 I am not sure of the identity but I do not believe this is the German 15cm lg. K. 92.

By the way, even though the Bulgarian Artillery web site is excellent and generally very accurate, the photo at the top of the Bulgarian 15cm Kanone page and the photos at the bottom of this web page are not the same gun.  The series of photos at the bottom do seem to match the Landships posted photo but this is not a German 15cm lg. Kanone 1892.

R/

Ralph Lovett

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by Ralph Lovett on Thursday 28th of November 2013 02:01:51 AM

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Ralph Lovett
IrishGunner


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Ralph, thanks for your input. Your eye for detail is always helpful.

How about this one from the bulgarianartillery.it site: Krupp 150mm M1880 captured from Greeks...

www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Krupp%20150mm_Greek.htm

 

 

 

image002.jpg



-- Edited by IrishGunner on Thursday 28th of November 2013 02:15:07 AM

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Rick
Ralph Lovett


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Rick

I just do not see enough detail from this web page on the captured Greek 15cm M 1880 to make a comparison. 

R/

Ralph

 



-- Edited by Ralph Lovett on Thursday 28th of November 2013 02:52:38 AM

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Ralph Lovett
IrishGunner


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Kosar's also has an Austrian 15cm Belagerungskanone M80 that is similar...

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Rick
IrishGunner


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I know, Ralph. It's a bad photo (but only one on the Bulgarian artillery site). I'm scouring Kosar's again.

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Rick
Ralph Lovett


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Rick

The Austro-Hungarian 15cm M80 looks a bit like it but has an screw elevating mechanism and the barrel has a belled muzzle.  Both points differ from the original photo you posted .

R/

Ralph

 

 



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Ralph Lovett
IrishGunner


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Ralph, I know I am throwing darts at Kosar's and hoping something sticks... How about the A-H 120mm M80? The camouflage in the photo makes it difficult...

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Rick
Ralph Lovett


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Rick

The Austro-Hungarian 12cm M80, like the 15cm M80 has a belled muzzle and screw elevation.  Also, the gun barrel is visually smaller than the one in your posted photo.

R/

Ralph

 

 



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Ralph Lovett
IrishGunner


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Well, I can always just say, "Big Bulgarian Gun"



-- Edited by IrishGunner on Thursday 28th of November 2013 03:18:13 AM

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Rick
IrishGunner


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Ralph Lovett wrote:

Rick

The Austro-Hungarian 12cm M80, like the 15cm M80 has a belled muzzle and screw elevation.  Also, the gun barrel is visually smaller than the one in your posted photo.

R/

Ralph

 

 

 

Ralph, you are of course correct.  Here's a photo of mine of the Skoda gun (I think the 15cm) that is better than Kosar's...  And the one's on Landships II are also great of the Skoda guns. 



-- Edited by IrishGunner on Thursday 28th of November 2013 03:35:23 AM

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Rick
Ralph Lovett


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Rick

Yes--that seems to be about all I can definitively say about it too.  I am going through the references but this may be an odd one I just don't have information on. 

R/

Ralph

 



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