Landships II

CharlieC · Legend

107mm Krupp designed Russian Guns

ain92 · Sergeant

Hello, Charlie.

According to Shirokorad, only two QF Krupp 42-line guns were tested in Russia before WWI, the first in October 1909, and the second, having a lower carriage, in 1910. None were ordered.

You're absolutely right about the WWI deliveries. According to different sources, 73 or 99 pieces were delivered. I know about two survivors, one is exhibited in Leany, another stored in St. Petersburg.

Regards,

Ilya

Ralph Lovett · General

Since we are on the topic of Russian 107mm (42 Line Guns), I have a 107mm M1877 (42 Line Gun) that I am restoring.� I have gotten good information on the wheels and am having new ones built.� I expect to have them on the gun by this summer.� The main thing�I still need�is either a�Breech Block or a good technical drawing of one. �With this I could�produce a replacement.�

This project has been mentioned on the Landships Forum before, but here is the link if you missed it:

http://lovettartillery.com/Russian_107mm.htm

�

R/

Ralph Lovett

Pzkpfw-e · Commander in Chief

Ralph, you must have one hell of a garage!

Ralph Lovett · General

You guessed my other problem---I am running out of storage space as you can see in these photos

CharlieC · Legend

There are a lot of detail differences between the Krupp built M05 105mm howitzer and the Japanese Type 38.

The Czech museum seems to have the story wrong - on their website they assert the Japanese gun was a Schneider design. They may be partly

right - the first 50 15cm Type 38 howitzers had Schneider breeches perhaps the 10cm Type 38 did as well.

The Japanese guns have a Cyrillic script marking on their barrels rather than the usual Kanji (attached) - anyone translate this?

The main 107mm gun in the Russian Army wasn't the Krupp design but a Schneider design, similar to the Canon de 105 L Mle 1913 �Schneider,

built under licence by Putilov.

Regards,

Charlie

�

kkfj1 · Major

The Japanese Type 38 and original Krupp 10cm guns have some differences in their carriages, etc. There's a photo comparing the side view of both guns in the famous Japanese book "Japan's Big Guns".

I believe the Japanese Type 38 10cm guns were sold to Manchurian warlord Chang Tso-lin in 1920s in undetermined number(see here: forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php). There are a few photos of Chang's soldiers operating these guns, but the documents concerning this transaction is very few.

Unfortunately 10cm Type 38 seems to be one of few types of Japanese guns which do not have a surviving example in China.

nebojsa djokic · Lieutenant

First two numbers I dont see good but problaly 4.7 others ...
4.7 linia (inch) quick firing gun
mod 1905
gun no. 3
1916 year
Navy arsenal in Kure
in Japan

CharlieC · Legend

�

That's interesting - production of artillery in Japan occurred at the Army Arsenal in Osaka. Wonder why the manufacturer is the

Naval Arsenal at Kure (outside Hiroshima).

Regards,

Charlie

�

CharlieC · Legend

�

Are you sure the Russian text reads "Kure Arsenal"? Taki is insistent that only naval guns were built in the Kure Arsenal.

Here's a link to the markings on the other 10cm gun at Leany -�link

Regards,

Charlie

�

-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 13th of January 2014 11:35:20 AM

ain92 · Sergeant

The markings are almost identical, only gun numbers and years differ. I attached a txt file with transcription. It translates as following:

42-line [4.2-inch] quick-firing gun
M1905
ordnance No. 3 [and 115]
year 1916 [and 1917]
Naval arsenal in Kure
in Japan

PS

Putilov plant began to produce these guns only in 1916, all before were manufactured in Creusot (or maybe Harfleur?).

-- Edited by ain92 on Monday 13th of January 2014 08:02:38 PM

CharlieC · Legend

Thanks to everyone for your help with these guns.

The Putilov 107mm gun was a different gun - designed by Schneider. The equivalent French gun was the Canon de 105 L Mle 1913 Schneider.

If the Putilov production of the 107mm guns didn't start until 1916 I can see why the Russian Army sourced 107mm guns from the Japanese.

Regards,

Charlie

kkfj1 · Major

The comparing side view I mentioned before: Type 38 10cm cannon and the Krupp cannon sold to Japan. It seems that a number of details are different.

ain92 · Sergeant

CharlieC wrote:
Thanks to everyone for your help with these guns.
The Putilov 107mm gun was a different gun - designed by Schneider. The equivalent French gun was the Canon de 105 L Mle 1913 Schneider.
If the Putilov production of the 107mm guns didn't start until 1916 I can see why the Russian Army sourced 107mm guns from the Japanese.
Regards,
Charlie

According to a 1910 letter of Russian minister of the Navy Stepan Voyevodskiy to prime minister Stolypin, the situation with 4.2-inch guns production was caused by the distribution system of artillery purchase orders. It resulted in overload of Putilov plant, which formed a syndicate with Schneider and Krupp and was winning the tenders one after another while Obukhov plant was absolutely out of job and nearly had to reduce the staff.

kkfj1 wrote:
The comparing side view I mentioned before: Type 38 10cm cannon and the Krupp cannon sold to Japan. It seems that a number of details are different.

The gun in below looks very similar to 10 cm Kanone 04 and totally different from Type 38. Can the latter be an indigenous design?

Capitan Print · Captain

ain92 wrote:
Hello, Charlie.
According to Shirokorad, only two QF Krupp 42-line guns were tested in Russia before WWI, the first in October 1909, and the second, having a lower carriage, in 1910. None were ordered.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
What was the Krupp 42-line QF gun prototype with high carriage for Russia similar?

-- Edited by Capitan Print on Monday 12th of July 2021 08:08:57 PM