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Post Info TOPIC: Mk V Combat History.
James H


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Mk V Combat History.
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Is there any agreement as to when the service career of the Mk V actually ended?

We know that the 2 in Berlin 1945 were the ex-Smolensk museum pieces, and there's no concrete evidence that they were still operational by 1945.

There's a claim that some Estonian Mk Vs took part in the defence of Tallin: "The heavy tank company was taken over by the Red Army in February 1941. The tanks were in a very poor condition and hardly able to move by their own power. As the Red Army did not have tank transport platforms for the railway, the tanks were left behind in a warehouse near Tallinn, which was soon after forgotten. The tanks were relocated again in August the same year when they were used to cover the Soviet retreat from Tallinn. Mark Vs were dug into the soil along the Pirita River coastal line in order to create stationary gun platforms for the defence line. There are no records however of the usage or success of this plan, yet it is certain that it was tried out." That apparently comes from a 1999 book called Estonian Armoured Machines by Tiit Noormets & Mati Õun. Does that count as being in action? Anyone have any more details?

In his book on the Mk V, D Fletcher says there's a photo "on the internet" of a Mk V converted to carry Soviet mgs and an anti-tank gun, but the photo not reproduced in the book, and its location is not specified, so it's not available for scrutiny AFAIK. This pic on the FSU site shows a Mk V with Maxims, allegedly in 1941, but nothing to establish beyond doubt that the caption is correct.

This gent has some interesting stuff but he does take a bit of a liberty by deciding that the caption isn't helpful and changing it to one that is, with not much to back it up. V interesting camo, though. Does that help? And he does claim that 2 Mk Vs were mobile (operational?) and two static.

So the question remains: when is it true (or at least reasonable) to say the Mk V went out of service?

Just one more thing, sir. Is there confirmation that in addition to the 2 Mk Vs on display in Luhansk there are 2 "in storage"? Seems improbable. Is it confusion with the two we know of being indoors while undergoing restoration?



-- Edited by James H on Sunday 15th of June 2014 06:13:04 PM

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Gwyn Evans


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I don't have much time to respond to all this, but I'll have a go.

Mark Vs in Berlin in 1945. No evidence they were mobile or used offensively. Appear to have just been targets.

Mark V used in defence of Tallin. Yes, I believe this to be true. Photo attached shows a Mark V with replacement guns, holes in the glacis plate and German troops.

Mark V with chequerboard camouflage. I am certain this is a presentation tank in Kiev. Compare with attached photo.  I have commented on this tank before on this Forum.

Gwyn



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Lothianman


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Gwyn's photo of the vehicle ascribed to Tallinn looks as if it may have a 45mm gun in the left sponson, which was the bog standard Soviet era infantry support/AT gun and tank gun - e.g. in T-26 (single turret), and most BT tanks (and also as a naval AA gun). The stepped barrel is characteristic of such guns. It would presumably be the earlier variant, not the long barrelled wartime development.

What I am not sure about is whether the gun in the tank is a tank gun or an artillery gun - the lack of cradle for the gun barrel suggests the former. It also seems to be trunnioned quite a way back (with the slot enlarged to allow this), perhaps rather further than on the original Hotchkiss, and no doubt with consequences for mounting traverse.

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James H


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Thanks, citizens. Ta for your time, Gwyn. On the last page of the Osprey book, DF does seem to have got the wrong end of the stick, talking about only 1 Mk V in Berlin. Any more info welcome.



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Gwyn Evans


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Definitely two Mark Vs in Berlin but I don't think that was generally appreciated until relatively recently. The IWM has a wartime film available on DVD that inexplicably features the Tank Museum's Mark V Male, though without sponsons, alongside Matilda IIs (still attached). Can't find the title of the DVD or film at the moment, so will have to look into that a bit more.

Gwyn



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James H


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Gwyn Evans wrote:

The IWM has a wartime film available on DVD that inexplicably features the Tank Museum's Mark V Male

Ah. We found that a while ago on Pathé or Critical Past, while we were investigating the blue/green/etc camo scheme. There's a link to it somewhere on the forum. I'll try to find it.

UPDATE: Here's the film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzqx2Jq3FDA

The discussion was about the Mk V and its possible connection with the dummy A7V filmed with it in the 20s or 30s: http://landships.activeboard.com/t50108121/mk-v-in-1942-england/

Talking of which, did Lothianman's enquiries ever amount to anything?



-- Edited by James H on Thursday 19th of June 2014 02:04:46 PM

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Lothianman


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Yes, the enquiries did, with some considerable success. I need to check one or two loose ends still, but am now almost 100% certain what was going on, and this reminds me I need to take a break from the "day job" and wrap up some tankie research. Watch this spot ...

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James H


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Oh, really? Magnificent. Proceed with vigor (sic).



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"Sometimes things that are not true are included in Wikipedia. While at first glance that may appear like a very great problem for Wikipedia, in reality is it not. In fact, it's a good thing." - Wikipedia.
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