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thorst


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Unknown Artillery
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Dear all,

 

during the visit of a model show last weekend I saw an artillery piece that looks to me like from the First World War, but I can't identify it as I don't know much about this category. Does someone know what the gun in the photos attached is? The diameter of the wheels is approx. 1290mm, the distance between the wheels (center to center) is about 1520mm. Unfortunately the muzzle was closed by a cap, so I could not measure the caliber.

 

Any help would be appreciated!

 

Best regards,

Thorsten

 



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28juni14


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Pic illustrates a  15cm sFH 02.  German nomenclature would translate to 150mm heavy Field Howitzer, model 1902.  A corps piece, batteries were sent to lend weight at decisive areas of divisional engagements.  If there was a dominate artillery piece at the war's opening clashes, this was it. 

For more information, please search for:   Lovett Artillery



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thorst


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Thank you very much!

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CharlieC


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Where is this howitzer located? There are a fair number of surviving sFH02s, but far fewer than its replacement, the sFH 13.

Regards,

Charlie



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thorst


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I found it in the Museum Stammheim am Main in Germany. I don't know anything about it, I'll write an eMail to the museum staff.
In the back face of the breech, I found "No 32 1908" embossed into the metal.

I took a lot of photos of the gun with reference measurements, if they shall be uploaded to landships II, I can provide them.

Cheers,
Thorsten

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28juni14


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I might add, this weapon system remained in production well into 1917 because it's successor, the sFH 13 had so many issues.

MFG,  28juni14



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CharlieC


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That's odd - I would have thought the production of the sFH 02 would have been greater than 32 guns by 1908.

I wonder if the howitzer isn't from one of the export orders Krupp built before WW1. I know that Sweden, Bulgaria

and Turkey received 15cm howitzers which were similar to the M1902. About the only significant change made to the

design was a slightly longer barrel, L/14 rather than the original L/12.

I'm not sure about the assertion the sFH02s were built until 1917. The sFH02 howtizers were rebuilt, probably more than once, during WW1 and often

received new barrels stamped with seemingly anomalous dates. There is an sFH02 in Rockhampton, Qld which has a 1917 barrel but a 1906

carriage - http://www.ammsbrisbane.com/home.html?L0=7&L1=1&L2=27. I know the sFH13s had problems with recuperation spring breakages,

fixed by using pneumatic recuperators, but it didn't stop the Germans building about 3400 of this model howitzer.

Regards,

Charlie



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thorst


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Luckily I took some measurements. From the back side of the breech block to the front end of the barrel it is about 209cm +/-2cm. The breech block itself is somewhere between 30cm and 37cm in length, I am not sure where it really ends because it is one piece. As I said I am not too much into artillery, but if I assume that the caliber length is measured for the barrel only, it's about (210cm-30cm)/15cm=12 .

Please see the pictures attached for the relevant photos with the measurements.

Best regards,
Thorsten



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Ralph Lovett


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This is not a German 15cm sFH 1902.  Notice the muzzle length from the last band is much too short and the sleeve extending out from the breech ring is much longer than for a 15cm sFH 02.  The most clear difference is that the recoil cap is completely wrong.  It is nearly flat compared to the 15cm sFH 02.  This is an export howitzer.  Look over this article previously posted on Landships (click onto "Other Material" then "Case of Mistaken Identity") :

 

http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles.html#

 

The Swedish 15cm M1906 has more of the characteristics of this howitzer. 

 

You can see the 15cm sFH 1902 line drawing on this page for a comparison:

 

 http://www.lovettartillery.com/MAT_15cm_sFH_1902_Detail.html

 

R/

Ralph Lovett



-- Edited by Ralph Lovett on Sunday 17th of July 2016 02:22:29 PM

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Ralph Lovett
Ralph Lovett


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To verify the information in 28Juni14's post, I have two 15cm sFH 1902 howitzers in my collection.  One has a 1917 date on the breech ring and no earlier dates on the carriage so its not just a rebuild:

http://www.lovettartillery.com/15cm_schwere_Feldhaubitze_1902_15cm_s_F_H_02_1917_date.htm

 

R/

Ralph Lovett

 



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Ralph Lovett
28juni14


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Sharp observations, Sir!  I noted the cap too, but nothing more.



-- Edited by 28juni14 on Sunday 17th of July 2016 09:36:34 PM

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CharlieC


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The howitzer looks a lot like the attached. This used to be at Fort Mutzig outside Strasbourg. The provenance of the howitzer

isn't known - it may have been one of the Belgian M06 howitzers, captured and reused by the Germans in WW1. There is

an M06 in a Swedish museum and one in the Finnish Artillery Museum.

Regards,

Charlie

 



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thorst


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I wrote an email to the museum. Let's see if they know anything about it... I'll post here when I get an update from them.



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nuyt


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I checked Lothaire's L'artillerie lourde de campagne belge and the Belgian Krupp 15cm 02 were actually captured German guns, taken in service in 1916. There were no M06 in Belgian service.


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CharlieC


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Thanks nuyt - that reduces the possibilities.

It isn't an Ottoman gun since these were marked with Osmanli script (there's one in the Sofia Military Museum) and had a gun shield.

Looks like we're down to a Swedish or Bulgarian howitzer.

Regards,

Charlie

 

 



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nuyt


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Looks very much like a Swede to me: www.jaegerplatoon.net/ARTILLERY6.htm

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Massimo Foti


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I have pictures from Sofia:
11295162216_4ee9fe59cf_b.jpg
More pictures and some comments on Flickr:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/massimofoti/11295162216/in/album-72157636746382615/

Hope it may help

Massimo
CharlieC wrote:

Thanks nuyt - that reduces the possibilities.

It isn't an Ottoman gun since these were marked with Osmanli script (there's one in the Sofia Military Museum) and had a gun shield.

Looks like we're down to a Swedish or Bulgarian howitzer.

Regards,

Charlie

 

 

 



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