Landships II

Centurion · Legend

Mr Morrises tank

Roger Todd · Legend

Mysterious, and fascinating... Well, the first pedrail track, as opposed to pedrail wheel, was only developed in 1911, so this Mr Morris, whoever he was, must have been using the pedrail wheels, a la H G Wells's Land Ironclads. As far as I'm aware, there wasn't an armoured vehicle that early using pedrails, but there is still, I believe, much to be learned about that early period.

However, I doubt if Crompton was involved. Although he'd been an early member of the Motor Transport Commmittee (MTC) formed in 1900, he resigned in 1905 to pursue his interests in the electrical industry, and only seems to have got directly involved in military transport again around 1908/09, when he designed an improved steam tractor for hauling guns (see Glanfield).

However, as I said earlier, there is much to learn still about the pre-history of the tank. Where did this info come from, Centurion? My curiosity is piqued...

-- Edited by Roger Todd at 17:25, 2006-03-18

Centurion · Legend

It was in an odd site that appears to put raiway history into context with everything else that was gong on (sort of like ' In Hebdon Vale Amos Fittlington invented the triple expanding perforated steam condensor, Archduke Ferdinand was shot in an incident in the Balkans' )

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/00-app1/01-outhist.htm

Its a lot of material so I've extracted the relevant passage.

In 1909 the Panama Canal opened, Leo Baekeland invented Bakelite, the first totally synthetic plastic and the French pilot Louis Bleriot flew across the channel in his monoplane. In Britain the Old Age Pension Scheme was established (pushed through by an alliance of Labour and Liberal MPs), town planning was introduced and the 'pedrail' steam traction engine appeared. This machine, billed as 'The Machine that Walks Hedges and Ditches' had very large wheels equipped with hinged 'feet', it did not catch on as an agricultural machine but the idea was used as the basis of the first military 'tank', developed privately by a Mr. Morris. The army had a good look at the Pedrail armoured vehicle but due to it's low speed it was considered useless for modern, highly mobile, warfare by the military authorities at the time.

Also in 1909 the Railway Clearing House issued its second standard specification for Private Owner wagons, introducing the requirement for right-handed either-side wagon hand brakes to try and reduce the number of accidents to shunters working in goods yards.

Roger Todd · Legend

Blimey, good to see the railway industry working to improve conditions for shunters, I'd have put that above the French guy flying over the Channel...

That's very interesting and odd. Bramah Diplock's pedrail footed wheels were fitted to a steam tractor, but much earlier, in 1901, with an improved version being tested by the Army in 1904 (fitted, funnily enough, to a Foster's steam tractor!). Incidentally, having dug into it a bit more, I find that Col. Crompton was involved with Diplock, the pedrail's inventor, from a very early date, 1897! And Crompton remained a member of the MTC's experimental committee even after retiring/resigning from the main committee. By the way, the Army trials of 1904 found the Diplock pedrail to be too delicate. The only other military trials with crawler-type vehicles I'm aware of during this period were those involving the Hornsby crawler tractors between 1906 and 1911.

However, there were all sorts of other, more primitive footed wheels being devised, and occasionally even built, by other budding inventors around that time, e.g. Bottrill's wheel, which to me looks like a ripoff of the old Boydell wheel. Perhaps one of those was involved with Mr Morris, and used the name pedrail (though I think Diplock would probably have sued anyone using the name!).

A final, entirely tangential, note: one of Bramah Joseph Diplock's ancestors was another inventor, Joseph Bramah, notable for inventing an incredibly secure lock, and an early flushing toilet!

Centurion · Legend

Roger Todd wrote:

A final, entirely tangential, note: one of Bramah Joseph Diplock's ancestors was another inventor, Joseph Bramah, notable for inventing an incredibly secure lock, and an early flushing toilet!

Not to mention a screw cutting lathe and the beer pump.

The War Dept were experimenting with pedrail wheeled tractors in the 1905 -9 period - I downloaded a picture some time ago of one with a big WD affixed to it I'm searching for it now.

Incidently there was a man called Morris involved in developing electrical transmission systems at this time so there could be a Crompton link.

Centurion · Legend

Here's a link to a WD pedrail trial

Roger Todd · Legend

I've got that picture too (and from the same source!). Glanfield also includes it in his article about Diplock in 'Old Tractor' magazine, but he says that the WD trials were in 1904. Do you have the source handy who says 1905-09?