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Post Info TOPIC: Copenhagen. Tøjhusmuseet


Colonel

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Copenhagen. Tøjhusmuseet
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I have two mystery pieces from this Museum I can't properly identify. One is a 380 mm mortar. It looks like an heavy trench mortar from WW I, but the label says it dates to 1910...

31127338615_b3f9f2b002_b.jpg

Then we have this gun, a De Bange from 1889:

30320425623_b185d12cdb_b.jpg

31090707806_21a312b04e_b.jpg

31127221965_b53dfd2181_b.jpg

 



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Legend

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The mortar bears some similarity to the 9.45" Flying Pig mortar which was based on the French 240mm Dumezil-Batignolles mortar. 380mm seems unlikely as the calibre - that would be a massive piece of equipment.

The small 1889 gun wasn't built by de Bange - it just says it uses the de Bange breech system. It looks like an 80mm (or so) small fortress gun - perhaps the guys over at http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/ may be able to help.

Regards,

Charlie

 



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Colonel

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The 380 mm caliber is, most likely, correct, it is indeed a massive piece

Massimo

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Colonel

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31158836916_d221fc702f_b.jpg

30827313510_1190f2e43c_b.jpg

The Museum identify these as: 37 mm Gruson M 1890

The gun is indeed smaller than the 57 mm I've seen used on similar turrets



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Colonel

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37 mm revolverkanon M 1871

31119416291_ab1d387f9b_b.jpg

31233775125_81a6bedcde_b.jpg

 

75 mm 1897

31119555961_eb5af7cfdc_b.jpg

31233912955_3977959826_b.jpg



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Major

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Hi 

 

The cannon to the left of your last photo is a Krupp ??

From what model ??

What you can see of your carriage is similar to that of the Krupp of 75mm Mod.1889 Argentino, or to the Krupp of 75mm Mod. M / 98 Chilean

 

Regards

 

Eduardo



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Major

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Forgive me, I meant Krupp of 75 mm Mod.1898 Argentino

 

Eduardo



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Colonel

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It's a classic Canon de 75 modèle 1897:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_75_mod%C3%A8le_1897

Massimo

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Major

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Hi

 

I think not because if you see well, this cannon  has over-carriage so you can aim in direction without moving your carrige

The Krupp 1897 used rigid mounting.

 

Regards

 

Eduardo



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Colonel

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To what gun are you referring? I am talking about the light grey gun, I can tell for sure it's a Canon de 75 modèle 1897, there is absolutely no doubt about it.
There are other 75 mm guns to the left and right of it. I will post dedicated pictures of them within a couple of days.

Massimo

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Major

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Hi

 

I did not explain myself correctly

As the image surpasses the word, I borrow your photo and frame on it with a red circle on the cannon to which I mean

 

Regards

 

Eduardo



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Colonel

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I see now! Sorry for misunderstanding. Yes, it's a Krupp, I will post a dedicated picture soon

Massimo

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Major

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Hi

 

With respect to the small 1889 gun

 

From 1882 to 1889, De Bange was Director of the Cail Manufacturing Corporation:

 

 Société Anonyme des Anciens Etablissements Cail- Paris

 

 

This plants they produced steel, cannons and railway material

 

Regards

 

Eduardo



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Major

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Hi

 

I was looking for information, and I found that De Bange guns were manufactured in different French factories. The most known were

 

·         -  Schneider-Creusot

·        -   Manufacture d'armes de Puteaux

·         -  Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire (Nantes)

·         -  Ets Sturmlinger (le Havre)

·          - Anciens Etablissements Cail- París

 

 

It seems that there was no real a "Factory DeBange".

 

Regards

 

Eduardo



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Colonel

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75 mm Krupp 1895:

31147001552_0620cd67f5_b.jpg

75 mm Krupp 1903:

31254918016_9afc4314ec_b.jpg

31176390421_dbd70a3c2c_b.jpg



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Legend

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Barbanente wrote:

Hi

..... 

It seems that there was no real a "Factory DeBange".

 

Regards

Eduardo


 Colonel de Bange developed his breech system in 1872 and became director of the Atelier-de-précision (part of the Central Depot in Paris) in 1873. He developed a series

of artillery pieces in this position until 1881.  He retired from the Army and became director of the  Cail Manufacturing Company from 1882 to 1889. His designs were property of the French state and were built by various arsenals and private companies.

Regards,

Charlie

 



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Major

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Massimo Foti escribio:

75 mm Krupp 1895:

31147001552_0620cd67f5_b.jpg

 

 


  

Hi

 

Thank you for your explanation and confirmation of the De Bange guns.

 

Regarding the photo of Copenhagen. Tøjhusmuseet

As I imagined, the Krupp of 75mm M / 98 Chilean and Krupp of 75mm Mod.1898 Argentine are developments of this Krupp of 75mm Mod 1895, and use the same design of carriage with minor modifications. The biggest difference between these three Krupp models is the breech block.

 

 

 

For its caliber must be a specifically export model. Besides, the differences with the 7.7cm Feldkanone C / 96 (FK 96 a / A) are great, especially in your carriage, which uses another design.

What is clear is that with this type of carriage it is physically impossible to carry out the modification that Mr. Brunner proposes when he says:

 

 ….”The Krupp mod. 1905 was actually a modified Krup 1898 refitted with shield,hydraulic brakes etc. in Argentine Arsenals”…..

 

It is clear that there is no place to add this system

In the Krupp 75mm Mod.1898 would not enter this hydraulic recoil, would hit with the same carriage and with the mechanisms of movements for the aim.

 

 

 

 

Regards 

 

Eduardo



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Colonel

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A Danish 190 mm 1898:

30960867610_00e474b2d8_b.jpg

31185476742_4bfca5c8b5_b.jpg

31293315506_43862ab05e_b.jpg

31214425071_3afc2ca4e6_b.jpg

 

 



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Corporal

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Hello Massimo,
I love the quality of your photos from Tøjhusmuseet. May I ask what camera you use?
Cheers,
Steen

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Colonel

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Hi Steen,

I own two different camera systems, a huge Canon 5D Mk III with a pretty large selection of lenses is usually the one I use. It's great, but it's also heavy and bulky, my typical backpack with the Canon gear weights between 8 and 12 kg.
A couple of years ago I realized I wanted something smaller and lighter, something I would carry even whenever taking pictures is not my main priority. So I bought an Olympus E-M 1 plus a 12-40 f/2.8 lens.

I traveled to Copenhagen together with my family, so I only took the Olympus camera with me. The Canon performs better overall, especially in low light, but tralling light was my priority this time, so I only took the Olympus.

You may see a good selection of my pictures on Flickr, most were taken with the Canon, some with Olympus. The exif data are all visible and provide additional details:
www.flickr.com/photos/massimofoti/albums/

Hope this will help, please feel free to ask for additional info whenever you see fit.

Massimo

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Colonel

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Here you can see the two cameras side by side, with similar lenses, and get a better idea:
camerasize.com/compact/

Massimo

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Major

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Thank you for these very interesting information on Anciens Etablissements Cail. In the artillery museum of my city there is a 37mm Cail gun from 10 years later(please see the photos).

As for the Gruson 37mm - I believe the famous Russian 37mm Rosenberg infantry guns utilized barrels from these old Gruson guns. Rosenberg guns served with Chinese army were always called "Gruson infantry guns".



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Private

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Hi Massimo,

The gun, which Tøjhusmuseet, Copenhagen, Denmark, incorrectly has identified as: 37 mm Gruson M 1890, is actually a 53 mm quick-firing steel cannon of model 1890 in a mobile turret of model 1890.
The Danish designation was: 53 mm h.S.K. M. 1890 in 53 mm transportabelt Taarn M. 1890.
Four pieces were received from Grusonwerk AG Buckau in Magdeburg-Buckau, Germany, in 1890 for use in Copenhagen Fortress, two for Dæmningsbatteri II and two for Dæmningsbatteri III, both batteries was built in 1887-1888 and decommissioned in 1920.
Two more pieces were received from Grusonwerk AG Buckau in Magdeburg-Buckau, Germany, in 1892 for use in Copenhagen Fortress. They were installed in Garderhøjfortet in permanent turrets. That fort was built in 1886-1892 and decommissioned in 1920. The Danish designation for those two cannons was: 53 mm h.S.K. M. 1890 in 53 mm Taarn M. 1892.

Yours

clausitpay

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Hi Massimo, 

attached You will find some plans and  pictures of the afore mentioned cannon 53 mm h.S.K. M. 1890 in 53 mm transportabelt Taarn M. 1890. 

 

Yours 

 

clausitpay



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Colonel

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Thank you for the info!

Massimo

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Private

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The Gruson 'Fahrpanzer' was produced in several versions. The most common one was indeed armed with a 57mm quick firer, but there was also a 37mm armed version, which I believe is the one pictured here

ian



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Colonel

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As ussual,  Massimo ,GREAT PHOTOS! Somewhere in my files I have a pic of a Chilean 57 mm in a Grusson turret-they were part of 30 acquired iin 1895. They could be transported on a horse cart..

Cheers

Gunther



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Major

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Massimo,
It seems your 380mm mortar in the first post might be the WW2, Rheinmetall-Borsig made Raketenabschussgerat (RaG43) rocket launcher. Hope this helps.

Markings on it apparently are  ‘bwo 38cm R.ag.M43 Nr.10’



-- Edited by vollketten on Monday 8th of April 2019 10:34:04 PM

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Corporal

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My artistic eye tells me that the 37 mm Gruson M 1890 indeed is a 37 mm gun. The calibre looks similar to the multibarreled 37 mm revolverkanon also pictured in this thread, whereas the 57 mm gun is much heavier. Someone in Copenhagen with a ruler can easily verify this

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Corporal

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Massimo Foti wrote:

31158836916_d221fc702f_b.jpg

...


Hi,

For a second I thought that this one might be an early model "Doctor Who" Dalek doh

Dr.WhoDalek.JPG

 



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to Massimo and Steen Winther and whom it may concern, 

I've already been there armed with a ruler, and Steen Winthers artistic eye have not betrayed him smile 

It is actually a 37 mm cannon. In a guide to Tøjhusmuseet (The Royal Danish Arsenal Museum) from 1948 it's described as "no. 789. 37 mm Cartridge-Cannon in Transportable Turret, cast at Grusonwerk in Magdeburg in 1887. The gun with its turret is horse-drawn as field-guns." 

The fact that this cannon is not mentioned in contemporary regulations for the Danish Army (neither the Field-, garrison- or coast-artillery) confused me, nor have I been able to find any evidence for its use in Copenhagen Fortress. 

My best guess is that this cannon was acquired from Grusonwerk for testing purpose. 

Yours 

clausitpay 



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