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Post Info TOPIC: 220mm L Schneider SPG


Legend

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220mm L Schneider SPG
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It's known that Schneider built at least one SPG with a 220mm L gun. However, there's hardly any information around about this vehicle.

It survived until WW2 - there are images of the Schneider SPG with Wehrmacht troops.

I found this claim at: http://basart.artillerie.asso.fr/article.php3?id_article=1310 (original in French - Google translated)

"Schneider has a lookout propelled prototype cannon 220 mm L, only one car. This solution does not have the approval of the General Inspector of Artillery who accuses him of the unavailability of the firearm in case of engine failure. It is nevertheless the solution of the single car that will be adopted later for the self-propelled artillery carriages."

Sounds to me that the (in)famous General Heer struck again.

And another quote: http://basart.artillerie.asso.fr/article.php3?id_article=1208

"The self-propelled cannon Schneider wore a 220 mm gun model 1917. Twenty two were built before 1918 and were used during the battles of St. Mihiel."

(That's weird - only a single unit of towed 220 L guns got into action before the Armistice)

Anyone know the truth of the matter?

Regards,

Charlie

 

 



-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 26th of December 2016 09:39:44 AM

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Colonel

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I am only aware of this SPG stored at Militärhistorisches Museum der Bundeswehr in
www.flickr.com/photos/100600200@N05/11352440704/

Massimo

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Legend

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Massimo Foti wrote:

I am only aware of this SPG stored at Militärhistorisches Museum der Bundeswehr in
www.flickr.com/photos/100600200@N05/11352440704/

Massimo


 That's a Saint-Chamond 280mm howitzer vehicle - there's a Saint-Chamond 194mm gun vehicle at Fort Sill, OK.

The Schneider SPG is a lot larger.

Regards,

Charlie

(image from elsewhere in the forum)

 



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Legend

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I downloaded these images in 2014 from somewhere or other (maybe even from this site!) which appear to be of the Schneider SPG with German troops in WWII...



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Legend

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Interesting - it seems the images are of different vehicles (one has a serial on the front plate the other doesn't).

It also looks as though the gun is run out into battery in the German images but is seen drawn back in the few

French images. The 220mm gun barrel could be withdrawn for transport.

Another French source said there were 3 vehicles produced, in June 1940 2 of these were mobilised at Bourges

where they had been in storage.

Regards,

Charlie



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Colonel

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Some of these captured mod. 1916s were turned over to the Spanish 250th ivision , the "Blue division" that fought in the Leningrad Front... The one in the Leningrad Museum...I wonder if this was one of the weaposn left behind when the Germans retreated..



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Colonel

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Some of these captured mod. 1916s were turned over to the Spanish 250th ivision , the "Blue division" that fought in the Leningrad Front... The one in the Leningrad Museum...I wonder if this was one of the weaposn left behind when the Germans retreated..

P,S, Thanks for the link Charlie...I noticed this bit of data: Il était prévu de monter des tubes de 155, 194, 220 et 280 mm sur ce genre de dispositif. La fin de la guerre réduisit ce programme aux tubes de 194 GPF et de 280 TR Schneider.

Which may answer the questions. I photographed a 194 at the Aberdeen Proving Ground.. on a tractor-mount like the U.S. 7 inch-naval gun..

Cheers

Gunther



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Brunner88 wrote:

Some of these captured mod. 1916s were turned over to the Spanish 250th ivision , the "Blue division" that fought in the Leningrad Front... The one in the Leningrad Museum...I wonder if this was one of the weaposn left behind when the Germans retreated..

Different gun - the 220mm Mle 1916 was a howitzer - the 220mm Mle 1917 was a long range gun. As far as I know the Germans didn't deploy the 220mm Schneider gun to Leningrad although they certainly seem to have deployed captured 220mm howitzers.  

P,S, Thanks for the link Charlie...I noticed this bit of data: Il était prévu de monter des tubes de 155, 194, 220 et 280 mm sur ce genre de dispositif. La fin de la guerre réduisit ce programme aux tubes de 194 GPF et de 280 TR Schneider.

 The statement in French is a bit muddled - it says it was intended to mount 155, 194, 220 and 280mm barrels on the St-Chamond chassis. In fact all 4 gun types were built - the 155mm and 220mm as single example prototypes. The 155mm was the GPF gun and was a study in improving the mobility of the GPF - 130 were ordered before the Armistice - this order was cancelled in Nov 1918. The 220mm was a St-Chamond long range howitzer - it was not accepted by the French Army, and, although the 220mm SPG was proven in trial shoots around Verdun an order for 75 of these was cancelled in Nov 1918. The 194mm was a scaled up GPF gun and 50 were delivered in 1919. 25 Schneider 280mm howitzer armed SPGs were also delivered in 1919. All this is documented in Landships II.

Which may answer the questions. I photographed a 194 at the Aberdeen Proving Ground.. on a tractor-mount like the U.S. 7 inch-naval gun..

The chassis is only superficially like the tracked 7inch mount. The cylindrical housing on the front (the gun faced backwards) is a cable reel - the separate tractor generated electricity which was fed to the gun vehicle via cable. On the opposite corner at the front of the gun vehicle is a driver's position - steering was by feeding the drive motors different amounts of current and by brake/clutch. There are videos of the St-Chamond SPGs moving and in action - they weren't fast - barely above walking pace. The Aberdeen gun vehicle is now at Fort Sill, OK.

Charlie

Cheers

Gunther


 



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Colonel

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You are right-I have not seen any pics of the 220 as an SP, just added the detail of the mod. 1916 mortar to the topic ".  Right again about the dfference in the mounts..Their only similariry is their tractor like suspention. Located my 7 inch guns shots, but no those of the 194 which I tokk at Aberdeen..Some of these were passed on to the U.S. Artillery(Coast I believe?)

Cheers

Gunther



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Legend

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Brunner88 wrote:

You are right-I have not seen any pics of the 220 as an SP, just added the detail of the mod. 1916 mortar to the topic ".  Right again about the dfference in the mounts..Their only similariry is their tractor like suspention. Located my 7 inch guns shots, but no those of the 194 which I tokk at Aberdeen..Some of these were passed on to the U.S. Artillery(Coast I believe?)

Cheers

Gunther


 The 7inch ex-naval guns on tracked carriages didn't get delivered in time for action in WW1 - according to Tim Rigsby's article on Landships II the first two were delivered in October 1918.

Tim says that some of the surviving mounts were used as coastal defence guns at the start of WW2. I gather the US gathered up all manner of older guns and used them as coastal defence pieces in WW2.

Regards,

Charlie

 



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Hi Charlie:

Sorry I misread the topic, I thought I was answering a post on the 220 mm mortar...I only know that c. 1922 there was at least one 177 mm on a tractor suspension at Annapolis- Md, that photograph was lost in a fire which wrecked our club's library and collections back in 1986..

Twelve of these guns (minus  carriage or mount of any sort were sold to Brazil c. 1940 along with other obsolete equipment formerly at the Canal Zone (e.g. Vickers 6-inch guns B.L. Mk VII, known as mod. 1917 in the U.S.. These were naval guns without any recoil mechanism, and were coupled with the mount of the British 8 inch how (that was built under icense here in the U.S. during WW1) but needed "runners", that is to say a wooden contraption to get them back into place after firing. To ger back to the 7 inch(Betthlehem?) the ones gsold to Brazil at a nominal price required a mount, so the Baldwing Locomotive was asked c. 1942 to manufacture a railroad mount for these, I have a pic which reportedly shows one of these..(I cannot vouch for it!)

 

In the meantime, here's the 194 mm I photographed at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds some years ago.'\Best regards

Gunther

 

P.S. I have one of  a Shneider 220 mm field gun . The Poles received a version of it on a railway mount, I find Photobucket agonizingly slow..It took me 20 minutes to upload this pic..Can you recommend a more efficient and less tortuous photo service?

Thanks!

 

/



-- Edited by Brunner88 on Thursday 19th of January 2017 07:06:15 AM

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Here is the 220 mm field  piece, this particular gun belonged to the Bulgarian Army post WW 1

Cheers1!

Gunther



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Legend

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That's the Canon de 220 Mle 1917 Schneider in the museum at Varna. It was a French gun that the Germans gave to the Bulgarians as a coastal defence gun after the fall of France. I think (from memory) the Bulgarians were given three 220mm guns. The 220mm Schneider could be easily configured as a coastal defence gun - it used a circular gun pit a bit like the Panama mount the US used for their 155mm M1918 (GPF) guns.

Regards,

Charlie



-- Edited by CharlieC on Thursday 19th of January 2017 07:26:18 AM



-- Edited by CharlieC on Thursday 19th of January 2017 07:56:46 AM

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Colonel

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My informant was not to0 explicit about the gun, only that it had a maximum range of 22.000 meters

Here's a pic of the 7 inch gun

 

Regards

Gunther



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Brunner88 wrote:

My informant was not to0 explicit about the gun, only that it had a maximum range of 22.000 meters

Here's a pic of the 7 inch gun

 

Regards

Gunther


 



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The gun on the image above, aka the '7-inch Naval Tractor Mount, Mark V' is described in detail in the book 'Handbook of Artillery, 1920', pp 249-258, which is available in full on Archive.org.



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Colonel

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Somewhere in my library there's a photocopy of a book on U.S. Munitions Production during the First World War, complete with pictures and production data. I'll try to find it..



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