Landships II

CharlieC · Legend

Williams-Janney hydraulic transmission

Alpha Six · Lieutenant-Colonel

This is Mk.II as we can see by cabs's rivets location.

MooreTanks · Lieutenant-Colonel

Have you also noted in the background a tank crane under a tarpaulin in the photo of the rear of the Mk II tank

CharlieC · Legend

Yes - I suspect the location was Dollis Hill in North London although it doesn't state the location in the IWM image captions.

The Welsh Harp (now Brent Reservoir) where the amphibious Mark IX was tested is pretty close to Dollis Hill.

Charlie

-- Edited by CharlieC on Monday 19th of June 2017 10:46:40 AM

jch_in_uk · Captain

The apparatus in the third photo looks like a Ford Model T radiator, I assume for cooling the transmission (if it's the same tank).

jh

CharlieC · Legend

The external radiator may have been a lash up since the transmission was found to generate excessive

amounts of heat.

Bit of research - strictly Williams and Janney developed and patented the variable pressure axial piston hydraulic pump.

The complete transmissions with hydraulic drive motors were produced by the Waterbury company.

Waterbury made turret actuator systems for the USN and Royal Navy before and during WW1.

The IWM has images of the rear of the Mark VII trial vehicle, also with the Williams-Janney transmission, but these haven't

been released to the Internet yet. It would be interesting to compare the arrangement of the Mark VII with the Mark II test vehicle.

Charlie

MooreTanks · Lieutenant-Colonel

Charlie if you can find me the IWM reference number I will add it to the list of documents/photos I want to see next time I go to the IWM archives, for you.

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Charlie

Where do you get the name Waterbury from? I can't find a company of this name. Do you have any more information about them?

Thanks

Gwyn

CharlieC · Legend

It is/was called Waterbury Tool Company based in Waterbury, CT.

Google found me a book on hydraulic engineering "Hydraulic Fluid Power - A Historical Timeline" by Steve Skinner available on lulu.com.

I've attached screenshots of the relevant pages. The Royal Navy used hydraulic turret drives designed by Armstrongs but these used water

as the fluid - the American drives used oil as the fluid and seem to have been fairly compact.

Stern called the drive the "Williams-Janney system" in his "Logbook of a Pioneer".

Charlie

-- Edited by CharlieC on Tuesday 20th of June 2017 03:08:18 AM

CharlieC · Legend

MooreTanks wrote:
Charlie if you can find me the IWM reference number I will add it to the list of documents/photos I want to see next time I go to the IWM archives, for you.

Thank you - the IWM search says there are 4 Mark VII images of interest

HU 64120

HU 64124

HU 64123

HU 64121

I think the trials were held in Scotland so the images may be of a tank in heavy rain or fog - the manufacturer Brown Brothers was based in Edinburgh.

It seems to me that I may have enough information for an article on the Mark VII tank for Landships II.

Regards,

Charlie

MooreTanks · Lieutenant-Colonel

Charlie I have added them to the list of archive documents I want to look at. I will be going back there in the Autumn.

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Thank you Charlie. This adds to my knowledge.

Gwyn

CharlieC · Legend

For anyone who would like to get their head around how the Williams-Janney transmission worked...

The principles are here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6FHU54qyRE

The Williams-Janney hydraulic pump had two cylinder blocks - one with a fixed swash plate

and one with a variable plate. The attached IWM image shows the pump disassembled. In this image the

variable pump is on the left with the actuating cylinder to move the swashplate. The fixed part on the right

is missing the cylinder block but shows the pistons. On many applications such as turrets the fixed swashplate

assembly acted as the motor for the transmission. If this is so in the Mark VII tank there were probably two

of these units - one for each track.

I can see why the hydraulic transmission attracted a fair amount of interest. A gearless

infinitely variable transmission which gave steering control by simply varying the flows to the motors certainly

is an attractive proposition.

Charlie

-- Edited by CharlieC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 07:01:22 AM

-- Edited by CharlieC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 09:14:09 AM

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Charlie

Just checked my files and I have a photo of the rear of the Mark VII, though I do not have permission to publish it. The tank does not have external radiators like the EMD (the tank in post #1).

Gwyn

CharlieC · Legend

Thanks Gwyn,

I have seen a comment that the Mark VII may have had a radiator in the roof to handle the heat build up in the hydraulic fluid.

It's important with hydraulic transmissions to limit the temperature rise of the fluid during operation.

Stern says there were two Williams-Janney units coupled to the rear of the engine with a 4:1 gearbox in the Mark VII.

Regards,

Charlie

-- Edited by CharlieC on Saturday 24th of June 2017 02:21:12 AM

Gwyn Evans · Legend

It definitely had vents in the roof.

Gwyn

Gwyn Evans · Legend

This is another IWM photo of the Mark VII but it appears sideways on their site and unless you twig that you can't make sense of it, but this shows the standard Ricardo engine, the vents in the roof, the Autovac and (I think) the two Williams-Janney units.

Gwyn

Gwyn Evans · Legend

Oh bu88er! That's just come out sideways! Rotate the image through 90 degrees anti-clockwise.

Gwyn

Willem Visser · Brigadier

Must it look like this?

Mk VII 150hp Ricardo engine w. Williams Janney hydraulic transmission (IWM Q14589).jpg

CharlieC · Legend

It does but the image only shows the left side of the W-J units.

What is notable are the steering rods which change the swashplate angle in the drives. They seem to have been

extremely well engineered presumably to try eliminate any backlash in the controls.

The hose which runs across the left hand unit may have been either the drain for hydraulic fluid leakage from the primary high

pressure circuit or may have been for make up fluid. Internally these drives leaked fluid from the primary circuit so there was a system

to collect excess fluid from the casing and pump it back into the primary circuit.

It's a pity the image didn't include all of the drive units. According to Stern there were bevel drives to gearboxes in front of the sprockets

for the chain drive.

I've annotated the IWM image for the people who would like to get up to speed on what this thread is about.

Regards,

Charlie